60 | Christian Pelli on Building Outbound AI for 1% Sales Performance

What happens when AI meets the sales stack? Christian Pelli, founder of We Are No Code, is back with Outbound, an AI-powered platform simplifying cold outreach for GTM teams and founders. On The AI Marketers Playbook, he breaks down how AI is revolutionizing B2B sales — from scraping ICP data to automating research, qualification, and messaging. 

Tune in for a live demo, hear why no-code is evolving into AI-code, and learn how Christian sees the future of voice interfaces and intelligent sales systems.

Checkout Outbound here: https://outbond.ai/?via=audrey 

Join my weekly Newsletter: https://lp.closewithcopy.co/welcome

Transcript

Audrey Chia: 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the AI Marketers Playbook, where we cover actionable frameworks to help you leverage AI and marketing strategies in your business. I'm Audrey Chair, your host, and today I have with me a good friend, Christian Pelli, the creator behind we are no code, where he has. Thousands of non-technical founders built software without writing a single line of code. And he is the powerhouse of this YouTube channel that grew from zero to 300,000 subscribers. Right? So check it out. But here's also a twist in the journey and what we are about to unpack today. So after a decade of helping people build, Christian realized something. AI has definitely made. Building a hundred times easier, but the real bottleneck is in finding the right customers. So this has led him to his newest Adventure Out Born and AI sales assistant designed to help founders GTM teams and sellers perform like the top 1%. Christian, I am super excited to check with you.

Christian P: 0:58

Me too. Yeah. Thanks. Wow. What a, what an introduction. Um, it's funny when you hear other people say it,'cause to me it just feels like 15 years of suffering. You

Audrey Chia: 1:08

know what? I totally get that. But yeah. Christian, tell us more about your journey, right? I know you are super successful in building your first venture. How was that and what made you decide to go, you know, it's time to move on.

Christian P: 1:19

Yeah. Let's see. Let's try to make this, uh, you know, to the point, but basically, yeah. Um. You know, my journey started 15 years ago and, um, I was excited about building companies and I fell into entrepreneurship because guess what? Every, it doesn't really matter what you're trying to sell. You need to build a website. You probably need to build an app. In my case, I needed to build both. And, uh, personally, I was not technical. Like I didn't know how to code. And that kind of started a journey, um, through which I built several startups. And um, at one point there was a really pivotal moment where I was the director. I became the director of an accelerator program in LA and I was training founders, right? And then I kind of noticed like, oh my God, these people are suffering from all the same problems that I had when I first started. Not technical need to, you know, build a product. And so it was costing people a lot of money, uh, to build products. And oftentimes they also didn't really have customers. So I was looking at about a thousand, uh, startups every six months and we were selecting 10. Right. But it really got me frustrated'cause I just realized like the majority, they just, they need the tools. At the time I had discovered no-code. Basically these tools that allowed you to, uh, build apps and websites just by dragging and dropping. Um, and I, you know, realized this was gonna be the future. So I started, we are no-code with the whole goal to empower non-technical entrepreneurs. And as part of that journey, trained more than 500 founders, helped them raise money and build their businesses. And, um, yeah, started a YouTube channel that kind of took off as well. Uh, throughout that journey, I, I learned a lot through that process as well. I'm happy to share anything. Um, but ultimately about a year ago, no code started transitioning into AI coding and having already had experience with a lot of the AI coding platforms at the very, very beginning of when they were coming out. I basically realized that this left nav experience like ai, um, like this was the future of AI coding for sure, of coding basically. And so, and I realized that this was quickly going to replace no code tools with AI coding tools for non-technical people. And yeah, just started teaching people that,'cause ultimately my goal was, you know, north Star was to empower non-technical people and these were the latest tools. So this is what we were gonna, you know, do Little did I know. Um, you know, we, about a year ago, I started realizing that the next big problem actually was getting customers right. And, uh, yeah. So I'm basically dedicated the past 10 years of my life helping people build product. And now the next 10 will be dedicated to, uh, to helping people get customers. So it's actually all part of the founder's journey really, because, uh, what I, just, the, the way that it came about was that one of my students joined Highly technical guy. And at the very beginning of building a startup, you wanna do customer discovery interviews, right? To discover what it is you should be building as a product to solve a real problem. And that usually helps guide the roadmap for your product. Right. And uh, yeah, basically he built a first, uh, you know, a first outreach tool that was booking him eight meetings a week. And then I got super curious. I was just like, huh, what, what else is out there? And then I discovered a platform called Clay that at the time was people didn't really know about it. And, uh, obviously now it's grown into a big business. And I also discovered this huge agency model, uh, where people were paying like$15,000, uh, per month to get clay experts to go to market engineers to like build out like outreach campaigns for them. And I was like. Great. Well if there's, if it's that hard to learn this platform, then there's an opportunity. And that's where basically I decided that we were gonna build outbound, um, a tool that allowed people to, uh, create sophisticated outreach campaigns. Um, as simple as, you know, you would do in lovable with AI coding, for example. And so, yeah, we launched that two weeks ago. We got crazy response and yeah, building another startup. I'm, uh, you know, I got stung by the bug, so.

Audrey Chia: 5:05

And you're never going back. But I love what you said about your journey and actually it seems very progressive, right? Because you actually help founders to unblock one big pain point and now you're realizing that hey, they also need to unblock that second big pain point, um, which is finding customers. Even for me, I work with a lot of startup founders, so I know how. Difficult it can be you have a new solution that nobody has heard of, they don't know what you do. It sounds complicated to a new batch of audience. How do you find prospects who are willing to buy open to listening, getting their attention? There is so much that goes into that whole process, right?

Christian P: 5:37

Yeah. Yeah. And, and obviously like a lot of us know about some of these strategies, right? The thing that everyone's been hammering home is like create content. And I'm never gonna say, don't do that because, you know, that is, is a huge piece of the puzzle. Um, but there's actually been, you know, like outreach is the oldest, uh, sales, uh, strategy in, you know, ever since we were trading in salt, right? It's like you have, you meet a person, you get in touch with the right person, you develop a relationship, and maybe you work together, maybe you don't, right? And so I think that is something that over the past five to 10 years transformed into a broken system where people are sending all, like one size fits all kind of spammy emails. Uh, or now it's turned into kind of AI slop. And so I think a lot of people are realizing that, um, sophistication is important and personalization is also important. So yeah, there's, there's a bunch of the, uh, the problems in that whole area that, that we solve. And, you know, we'll, we'll talk a little bit and I'll show you the product. I know you, you were excited to, to do a demo, but, uh, I'm happy to talk about some of these pain points that I'm seeing sales teams face.

Audrey Chia: 6:40

Yeah. I'm curious to know, right. What is the biggest shift you have seen since ai? Right. Because tell us more about, a bit about the old way of doing things versus the new way. Because I think there are many listeners who know that AI is powerful, AI can do lots, but they don't know exactly what AI can do at this point in time.

Christian P: 6:57

so, uh, basically, so 2025 was really dominated by the AI coding tools, right. And I think that, um, we've seen lots of great tools in lots of different areas developing themselves from like content creation, from like, everyone knows you can use things like Chad, GPT to copyright. There are plenty tools for copywriting. Right now we're seeing a huge uprise for like, uh, image creation and video creation. That thing I think is gonna become. A, a huge part of this next step, but we've also seen the beginning of a rise of tools that really help people on the sales front. Yes. And I think that the sales, sales is actually something where this is needed. It really is. Like, if I take outreach for example, like as an example, there's so many things broken about it right now. And, and just to give a bit of context, I think a lot of industries, what we've known up until the point of ai. Is being reinvented. Um, for example, there's a narrative in, in, um, at least in the ai, um, sort, sorry, the, the sales tools that, you know, you have to be very good at one specific thing, right? Um, and, and you should just stick to that tiny little thing and you'll, you know, just be good at that. And then all these pieces of the puzzle fit together. But for outreach, it's come to the point where it's like you basically use Sales Navigator to find prospects manually. Then you have to sign up for one or two, like enrichment tools to like find their email addresses. And then you have to push that into maybe if you want to check that those emails are valid into. Validation, like a verification platform basically. Then from there, you're gonna have to, uh, grab each one of these individually and do research so that plugging in these prospects in chat GPT, with your fancy prompt. Then after that, you need to start opening a bunch of tabs to do like, outreach through email or like connected to a sequencer, and there's just too many tools, basically too many tools and. Most people are not by default technical, right. In the sales area. Right. Versus AI coding. You have, you know, coders. Right. And so that's where I think that like one of the big approaches that we've taken that people are really enjoying is just the ability to take advantage of all the benefits of these. Different parts of the process and kind of unify them into something with the best, um, the best tooling that the like actual like go to market engineers are using to create these sophisticated campaigns in some of these more complicated tools. And so, and then you just have the whole thing orchestrated by, um, agen AI infrastructure and architecture that allows you to actually. Um, have AI use these tools, use the context about your company to be able to, you know, perform very sophisticated, uh, and personalized campaigns. And that's where you start being able to actually cut through the noise. Um, and that's for me, the way that we're gonna actually solve the whole like, outreach problem where it's like spammy and people are just like. Oh man, not another one. It's like it's by actually sending fewer emails to the right person at the right time with the right message. Right. So, you know, and a good example that I I I, I'm kind of coming back to a lot is like, if you're trying to sell me a cardboard box, like I don't care. However, if the week that I'm moving, uh, you know, you, you know, you call up and you're like, Hey, we have like cardboard boxes on discount right now. Like that is gonna hit very, very different. So context is kind of everything. And signals are things that we can actually, that AI is quite good at, at finding. And data providers are quite good at finding, to be able to make that messaging not only timely, but then also very contextualized and personalized. And I think that's where you start winning, right? Um, versus like, oh my God, I'm just getting bombarded because, you know, I just said I changed jobs and now I'm getting, you know, bombarded by random emails.

Audrey Chia: 10:43

I love that. And I think what you mentioned, right, um, the old way where you have five different tools versus the new way, one tool, I think it solves a lot of people's problems because even for me, when I work with clients, um, sometimes I see them trying to set up play. Play is really technical. It seems like a. Fun logo, but it is a very technical platform. Um, at least for people who are not trained, right? Then you have to figure everything out and there's 10 million steps and 10 million things you can do. So it's really powerful. But if you don't have the time, expertise, or knowledge, you might find it very challenging to set up. So a tool and a platform like yours would definitely be important. Can I also ask right now, you said in the past people would send emails that were maybe not as relevant, not as personalized. What are some. Examples of personalization. That makes sense. What are the triggers or signals you are looking out for?

Christian P: 11:32

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so I think I would start off by saying that, like exactly what you said, like people up until now have had to choose between sophisticated and complicated or uh, or simple and basic, you know, and so that's what we don't agree with, um, in general. But in, in terms of actual signals, there are certain things that can be very valuable, and the signals that are valuable for one company might be very different than for others. And then there are some that are perfect for everyone, right? So a, a general signal would be if a company is growing, right? If a company is growing, we know there's probably more opportunity for, uh, for that company to, to engage in more business, right? So that could, would be a very general one. Now, another good example is. For example, uh, we go after people who are in sales, right? So a good, uh, a good signal for us is if someone recently changed jobs as a salesperson, they're coming into their first 30, 60, 90 days. We know they need to perform. So that could be a very good, um, in terms of timeliness, that could be very good for us to come in and be like, Hey. You know, like we already know that this person's trying to come in and make an impact and show what they're capable of. And if our tool can help them do that quicker, then that's gonna be a great signal for us to, um, to, to, you know, act on. Now. I think a place where people make mistakes is that they think that you always have to mention the trigger that you know, so for example, I don't know if you've received this kind of a message, but it's like. I saw that you commented on this person's post.

Audrey Chia: 12:57

Yes. Yes. Therefore, yesterday.

Christian P: 12:59

Yeah. And, and so the, the, the mistake that's made there is like. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't make that person look so good that they're like scraping other people's posts and like, you know, but it is a good signal that someone's engaging, let's say with a competitor's, uh, content to know, hmm, this person might be in the market for this. So, um, I would just not mention how you, you know, like I wouldn't mention that as a signal. You know, I would potentially just say, Hey. You know, like, and then come in with a value pitch, right? We've helped people, you know, and then an example of a success story, perform desired outcome that that person probably has because of their position or whatever. So there's other things that can be very specific per company, like technographic, meaning like what technology are they using, right? If you're, if you're software is great for people who use HubSpot, then knowing that someone uses HubSpot is a valuable piece of insight. Um, but there's all sorts of things. You know, right now there's more and more signals that are, that are possible. You can even find out if people are currently hiring, what positions these people are hiring for, how quickly a specific department even is growing in terms of headcount. There's actually a lot of, um, of ability to find, and, and that is where the game is starting to become. So one thing that we've realized is that. So we're solving the technical part of setting up these campaigns, but there's the strategic part too, and that's where people get to be creative. But one thing that I'm really betting on is that, um, the average go-to market engineer is, um, a lot more technical, but maybe lacks some of the understanding of the strategy and the sales. Um, then, you know, if you put a, the, the ability for someone to execute who already has the understanding of. How to kind of like communicate with a customer how best to kind of like convince a customer, um, and how to, you know, attract interest towards an offer. I think they're actually in a really good position to be able to use that technical piece to then become creative. And that's what I'm excited about. It's like, I think that when you put the power of that kind of, uh, creativity in the hands of people who are like actually like natural born salespeople, it kind of. Has a higher probability of doing very well. Yeah. And I love it. But that's, yeah, it's one thing that we're looking to, uh, to help people with is like how to get into that mindset of like. Um, of the strategy side of things too.

Audrey Chia: 15:14

Yeah. I always say, right, it's like, uh, art and science, right? Like, for example, you understand how to use this tool, but it doesn't mean that you know how to use a smart content strategy to convert. So even if you're using, for example, the equivalent of chat GP to create content, and you're very good at chat, GPT. It doesn't mean that, you know, the copywriting frameworks, psychological tactics, um, you know mm-hmm. Audience pain points to target, to crafty, so that human AI or human tool element is very important. With that being said, Christian, I think it would be great for us to take a look at your platform. Just give us a run of how it works.'cause I think listeners will also be interested to see how they could get started.

Christian P: 15:50

Yeah, absolutely. So I'll kind of, uh, bring you through it. Let me just share my screen over here. Gimme a little second. Go ahead and presentation screen. There you go. Let's see if, uh, okay. Can you see that?

Audrey Chia: 16:07

Awesome. All right,

Christian P: 16:09

excellent. So this is the outbound, basically, and here we have all of the different tables that I've been building. I'm gonna close this so you can see kind of a cleaner view of it. Uh, ultimately this is a chat, and the main question is who are you trying to reach to today? And there are three main approaches, um, for people who don't really have much experience, but maybe have a website. I would simply say find me prospects based on my website, and you put your website and it will basically go and scrape your website, figure out who you sell to. And then it will create a, a prospect list. Uh, another one would be build a list just based on an actual role. So like build me a list of marketing managers at type of companies. So tech companies in location with an an employee count potentially. So we could have like a company size. Um, and then the third one is, I know exactly the companies that I want to target. And now I'm gonna tell you who to go after in those companies. So, you know, find me senior product managers at these companies, and then I'll, I'll dump 50 companies. These are three approaches where people are getting good results in the app. And so if you don't have any experience, I'd recommend to, to start up with a, a, a simple one. Right? Um, which one would you like to try it?

Audrey Chia: 17:13

Let's try the second option'cause that's really cool, right? Being able to get AI to analyze who is your potential target audience and pull data for you.

Christian P: 17:21

Yeah. So why don't you give us your website so we can promote your website, but also so we can, uh, so you can tell us how well this does.

Audrey Chia: 17:28

Sure. So my website is closed with copy co.

Christian P: 17:35

Close with Copy Co.

Audrey Chia: 17:37

Yes. I'm also curious to know, right, where are you scraping the data from? Is it from multiple sources or do you have a single source where you're pulling the, the data pieces?

Christian P: 17:45

Great question. We do have multiple sources that we pull it from, but we also, uh, are able to get, uh, some of these signals in. So now what it's doing is that it's actually sent out an agent to scrape your website, to convert that into an ideal customer profile. And I'm super

Audrey Chia: 18:00

excited.

Christian P: 18:01

Yeah. And then it's basically going to use that, you see, it's also going to your website, to your YouTube channel. Wow, cool. It's scraping everything that it can find about you and your business so that it can grab a lot of context. And this is one of the most powerful things about AI is that when you combine. Context. Yes. Now we can start doing lots of cool stuff. Um, so it's going ahead and starting to write out, um, this ICP.

Audrey Chia: 18:25

Wow. I'm so curious to know what are wrong. And here it is, writing

Christian P: 18:27

out Close with copy is a hybrid human AI copywriting consultancy that can buy strategic human expertise with AI powered content frameworks that help agencies and marketing teams scale content production efficiently. So it's done a pretty good job. It's also, uh, identified a bunch of other things as well. Yes. Um, like the fact that you're based in Singapore, um, ICP Oh, and now I could switch back to this to show you what it's like, but it created an ICP. Yes. It created a persona and it created a company description. All of those. Used as context

Audrey Chia: 18:57

now, and it's really cool that it's script also from the YouTube links that I have had, even though it's just my website.

Christian P: 19:03

Absolutely. And then based on that, it basically determines who it thinks it should go after and it converts that into, uh, filters. So here are the filters below, but it already shows us some people. That it thinks would be good, uh, prospects for you. Right? So if I open up here, show filters, it's gonna show us all of the, um, all of the criteria that it's used. So it's go, gone after, uh, people who are marketing directors, head of marketing, VP of marketing, vice president of marketing. It's identified ad uh, services company, marketed service PR companies, like it's broken down everything that it thinks, and this is really something that now you can start playing around with. So let's say for example, you don't focus on Canada, Australia and Singapore. You can start saying, Hey, okay, now let's exclude Singapore. But ultimately it's brought up a list of people and you can go through these, you can check out their LinkedIn profiles. Um, and, um, you can basically see whether or not they're good fits and as soon as you've, uh Oh, sorry. Yeah, so you can also get, check out their website. Um, which is right here. Um, and then yeah, determine is this, and this is a preview. Are these the right people or do I want to fine tune? So now let's say US only, US only, and people, and I love that

Audrey Chia: 20:18

the interface is on the left. You chat with the interface to then update the filters, right?

Christian P: 20:24

Absolutely US only, and people who recently changed jobs. Why? Well, because I noticed here that there's 30,000 people who fit this criteria. So we know that if we want to get to like a smaller list, and we know that people who have just changed jobs probably are trying to, again, that could be a good signal for you that like these people are in the market, they're an analyzing new tools. They were probably just put in touch, uh, like put in, in control of a budget internally. And so again, these are the kind of little things that you start thinking about when, um, when you can start thinking about the strategy and, and less about the actual execution. Uh, because you know it's happening this way. So now 500 highly targeted people, um, in the different areas that we've talked about, and we can check out the criteria again, US only, I could even change whatever I want from here. At some point I'm happy and I wanna start importing leads. So now here you basically import 25 by 25. So let's import. Um, 25 to begin and we just put import leads. So this was just the preview and now we're importing leads from this and it's building out the entire table, and then it's bringing in all the data and it's built your, your Excel spreadsheet, if you'd like to call it that way of leads for you. And that's actually just step one, uh, because from here. So this is what right now is taking people like an a, a, a salesperson. It takes them 50% of their time just going on LinkedIn NAV and like individually finding people and then adding them to like their list when you can now do this in a matter of seconds, right? Um, the next part is like, great. Now we need to, you know, find people's phone numbers, uh, find people's emails. So let's say that we're gonna go ahead and do an email campaign. Find me their emails. Now, from now on, it's gonna do pretty much everything only in the first five lines, so that if it makes a mistake, you don't spend credits, right? And so it's going to create an additional column, work, emails. It's going to search. We've plugged this into the top, top, top, uh, data providers. In waterfall. So it goes through one. If it finds it, uh, uh, you know, it, it stops. If it doesn't, it goes to the next. And then it also, we've already incorporated, uh, verification. So this check mark here is because it actually sent pings the server checks, if that's a valid email. And if it's not, it's gonna give you an X. So let's do a couple more so that we can actually. Uh, C and x here. These would be emails that you would probably not wanna send an email to because it'll damage your, your email inbox, reputation, and, uh, you won't reach the person, right? Maybe because that, that information has changed. Um, and I, I'm trying to find one here that, uh, at least is gonna give us an X. But, uh, we, in, in a larger list, you'll get about 10% of people who, either you don't find their phone number or their email address. Or it's invalid and those people you're gonna wanna like filter out afterwards. Thanks. But yeah, here we're getting a really good and clean list as we can see. Uh, the next step might be something like. Research. So this is like a crazy thing. You can basically like, so here, normally now, I would come here and I would find one person. I would be like, okay, let's go after Patrick. Cool. Now I'm gonna grab the information about Patrick. I'm gonna go to chat GPT with my fancy prompt. I'm gonna do this for each individual before reaching out.'cause I wanna be personalized, right? Uh, with this platform, you could basically describe what you're looking for and it will go out there and search the web and scrape their website and figure it out. So like you see question mark. So if it's an X or a question mark, it's invalid. Mm-hmm. And, and this is because now it's gone all the way to the final providers to check whether or not it's able to find something and it seems like it's not. So here. Now we can say something like. You know, build a research agent to, um, determine if no who this person's company and I can spell badly. That's what's great or wrong here. Uh, persons company cell two, I'm. Looking for their ICP, but return it in three to five words. So it's like you can ask pretty much everything that you would ask in chat GPT about this person, and then it will build an agent for you and run that research for at first, the first five rows, but then you could do it for thousands of leads all at the same time. If it doesn't find that information, it'll just be like, we didn't find it right. But this is where, um, the fact that we train this on the best go-to market engineers basically allows us to do things that, you know, you would basically, you know, you could only dream of before. So it's like, if you look at, like here, it's building out, um, a, a research agent. If I go in this column, let me show you what it's done. It's written out this full prompt. Research the ideal customer profile and target market for this company. And then it puts in their domain and then it's like you wanna research all this different stuff. It's written out this, and it's also written out the output schema. This would require a nerd to write out. Usually it's all created here and we can see that there's basically a couple that it wasn't able to find anything for, and others that have found exactly what we need. So here I can click on this column and it's like we found it. Financial services firms, this is who this company sells to. Yeah. And then companies, customer size, mid-market, enterprise, and this, we can literally have it be like, you can have it create for each one of these people. Like anything you want, you could say, you know, and this is what's super impressive to me, is like. The ability to just do this, um, so quickly, right? Yes.

Audrey Chia: 26:04

Like I just booked out an AI

Christian P: 26:05

research agent. Right. I have a question on the

Audrey Chia: 26:08

research agent part, right? So the question, just a quick one. Yeah. Why did you have to pick, why? So can you tell us more? So the AI builds an agent who then who then goes to do the work. Um, why do you include that agent? Step in between? Why isn't it just like a, oh, pull this data out from this source?

Christian P: 26:24

Yeah, great question because, um, some sources are actually like ai. An AI agent has the ability to scrape the entire web and to find, uh, publicly available information. So if I ask, like figure out if this company is hiring or not. Um, you're gonna, you know, and, and this could be anything that you could ask for. You could say, Hey, go and find out, you know, who, anything you can that's personal about this person, about the company. So it's, it's, think of it like, and we actually have perplexity under the hood who do, who powers this agent? So the, the bottom line is, if you're talking about, why don't you, before building the list, actually have this inside, the answer is twofold. Number one. That's actually happening very soon because we're doing ultra targeted targeting soon. Wow. But number, so we would actually do a research and then we would layer that on top of the data provider. But anyway, for right now, the second reason is that there are, uh, signals that you can get from data, uh, you know, private, private data. And there is, and there are some that you can't, right? And for those that you can't, you want to do a research agent. And so that's why like, you know, if we were, you know, it's gonna, there are certain things that you would not be able to find that by a, with a perplexity search, you'd be able to do quite quickly. The other cool thing that I love is that like, if something you don't like, for example, like we don't need the target industry, you could just delete these columns. So, you know, there's one thing that gets really frustrating with AI coding. It's like. If you mess something up, the whole thing messes up, right? And so the cool thing is when you work inside of like a, a workflow or, you know, in this case you can just call it a, a, um, a lead list, you don't have that problem. So let's take it to the next step. Now let's say that I want to, you know, copyright. So now you can create copywriting agents, or even better qualification. Please qualify these leads. For me now, remember how earlier we fed it, the information about your company. If we hadn't done that at this point, it would be like, we need information about your company. Give us your website or tell us more about your company for us to qualify to see if these leads are good. The average person doing qualification, which is really lead scoring, like saying who's the best lead? And give them like kind of like a score so you can focus your energy or the energy of your salespeople on the best ones. Here, it's actually, um, doing a very complex qualification, um, agent here qualify these prospects based on, and then it, like, it just goes hard. It just like writes out a prompt, like a top engineer, and it's like you're gonna score from one to 10 based on the role and seniority and authority. The, uh, manager level, the, you know, like all of these different. Like, usually people would just like look at like a, a LinkedIn, be like, yeah, this is a good prospect. This goes hardcore. Now it's created a qualification where one to 10 and as we see most of them are relatively high. Why? Because it built a great list to begin with. Right? So, you know, if you, this is just like, what's really cool is like the ability to. And then look at this reasoning why it's a good fit. Well, actually Patrick holds a director level marketing with decision making authority over marketing technology, content strategy. So it's like, yeah, wow. I was impressed when we built this thing.'cause it just like, wow goes and it's like key strengths and it, it goes further than you what you asked for, basically. So now at this point I can say something like. Write me a personalized message for these people if you wanted. Or you can write that yourself and say, reference in the first line, their ideal customer as a personalization point. But one thing that I like to like tell people is like, people always think of just like personalized messaging, but like, how about just like, um, could you write three good points for my. Sales team who are going to call this prospect, um, that can help them close them. I want three bullet points. So it's like copywriting, co copywriting agent. Um, okay. Which prospect are you focused on? Name all rows. One all rows. I don't want a signature. This is just for notes for my sales guy. Wow. So like, and, and, and listen, I'm doing it now, so it seems like, oh, this is so easy. But you know, there is a little bit of method to the madness where I say like, it still requires some learning around like strategy, around like what are the steps. But ultimately, uh, you could write personalized messaging. You can now download this at any point right here. And just like if you got the email address, the phone numbers, you could just. Export this and give it to your sales guys. Uh, if you're doing email, you can plug this into a, a sequencer and it just sends out the messages. Soon we'll actually have this, here are three talking points Wow. For each one of these people. Um, so yeah, reduce content production timeline by 70% with a bespoke AI frameworks, meaning the team ships landing pages and copy and ad copy and email sequences in days instead of weeks. Okay, that's a pretty good point for Patrick. And it split it up into three points. And now you could say something like, okay, I dunno, write an email where you, you know. You could ask for like, what are the, the, you know, scrape this person's website and found out the three pain points that you think we're solving for them. And then it'll like, so it's kind of like sales intelligence really, like we say outreach, but like outreach can be you calling the person. It can be you literally coming over here and opening up their LinkedIn profile now that you know they're a targeted person and just sending them a request at first. Right. Um, it can be you finding their phone numbers and giving it to like the sales team and they just call them up. Right? There's actually a big return of just like calling people, like no one does it anymore. So, you know, there's an advantage there. So after

Audrey Chia: 32:21

this, right, then what, what if somebody wants to take it forward? So they need to look for another tool to send the emails out, or can they do it within the platform?

Christian P: 32:27

That's a great question. So right now we basically allow you to plug into multiple platforms for sending, if you wanna do sequences. So it's like. Basically if you need and And you just need one tool for the sending that you plug in. Yes, but we're actually going to be working on building this all in-house so people come in, they don't even do half the stuff that we've done here. Yes. They just like input information. We tell them plays could work well, like outreach that could work well for their use case and what their company is and what their products are. And then they're just like, run it. And then we're like, this is how many credits it's gonna use up. Would you like to, you know, would you like to use these credits to, to run this outreach? And they'll say yes or no. The long term vision is that they become self intelligent. So basically like we're already kind of working on some of this, but uh, when you see positive responses come back from people, then you start building lookalike audiences that you add that, and then we go searching for those kind of lookalike audiences and. Audrey will wake up after her coffee in the morning and they'll be like, Hey, we found 56 uh, prospects who are perfect for your business. Um, would you like us to add them to this campaign that you've already created? Wow. So, and you'll just be like, yeah, let's do it. Right. Um, yeah. A last thing I'll, I'll, I'll touch and then we'll, we'll get out of this interface here and we can continue the conversation Is. People really think of outbound as like outreach, right? But there's other things that you can do with outbound as well, like inbound led outbound. And this is probably something that for, uh, for you is gonna be interesting. Uh, let's say that, you know, lots of people, uh, you know, interact on your, um. You know, either on your LinkedIn posts because you're like, Hey, comment this, and you'll get a lead magnet and now you need to ascend it to thousands of people. Um, or, um, just because people are commenting because you added a lot of value, right? Or people are liking it, uh, you can basically add those people as soon as they interact with the post into one of these, uh, things. Then it goes through qualification. If it meets the qualification, like this could be a good customer for you, it automatically sends them a message. Same thing with website visitors. Someone visits your website. If they're in the US you can basically get the information, um, about this individual and it sends this person inside of one of these rows qualifies. And if they, you know, if they're visiting your pricing page and they're also your ICP, then it probably makes sense for you to send them an email and not an email in six months to a year or retargeting them with Facebook ads, but like an email that goes out. 10 minutes after they came and visited your pricing page. And that's where you send the right, like message to the right person at the right time. And so that's what becomes very exciting is that we're kind of putting, right now this kind of sophistication would require an entire team of go to market, uh, people and, and, uh, a very expensive subscription, if not 10. Um, and so we're allowing people to get that power in one place. Um, and actually at, you know. 30% cheaper than most of our competitors and there aren't, there aren't many who, who provide this kind of sophistication, right? There's kind of like clay and maybe like one or two lookalikes.

Audrey Chia: 35:25

Yeah. Wow. Christian. I think there was such a wonderful demonstration of the power of ai. Right now, I think it's, what I particularly love about it is that chat bot interface. Um, for someone who is non-technical or who may be new to code outreach, you really have to have. You know, someone to bounce ideas with or to ask questions. And in this case, right then, that chat bot becomes that sounding word for you to, okay, what do I do next? Can you help me search for this? And I think that integration makes it so much easier for someone new to get started in this space. I'm curious to know your thoughts, right? So we talked a bit about, you know, where AI is at right now, what it can do next. Where do you think sales folks are gonna go from here?

Christian P: 36:08

Yeah, this is where I talk about systems of intelligence, and this is what we're work like what we're building is really a system of intelligence, right? It's a system that can start learning from, uh, from you and your business and, um, and, and, you know, be able to, um, basically do outreach that's timely, right? I think that, um, you know, right now in the middle term, the, the big thing that's going to be changing in AI is like. Things like long-term memory, um, you know, like larger contexts, uh, you know, windows. And, um, and I think that's also gonna provide additional opportunities. I think that right now there's like this big opportunity where there are, you know, we, I think 2026 is gonna be a big year for ai, uh, sales intelligence. Yeah. And kind of we're positioning ourselves, uh, among those, but I also am seeing. That it's happening in pretty much every other industry. We're seeing the death of the traditional UI and the birth of this more conversational ui. That's, that's a first thing. Um, I think sometimes there's limits to that, right? Like there's things that you will just wanna like click on one or two button. You don't need to always prompt things. It's like kind of a combo between those things. But ultimately I think that it's going to give rise to the kind of mentality that I have around outbound, around like. Being able to do sophisticated things in an easier way. So I think of platforms like, um, right now, like video editing is going through that, and I think by the end of 2026, you'll probably be able to like edit at the same quality as like, uh, like YouTube, top YouTube editors within an interface where you're literally just kind of like. You upload the thing and you kind of have a quick chat. We're already seeing signs of that with companies like Descrip. Um, you know, and we're seeing really cool stuff happening with like short form repurposing with like opus clips. So I just think that this is gonna start becoming like our new norm and honestly in the future, future, and this is something like. Is that I'm a big believer in voice, um, for a a, a portion of the population. Like I communicate way better. I'm a vocal communicator. Right? That's probably why I'm pretty good on, on YouTube and these kind of things. But I think a lot of people are right. And so I think that, um, you know, there's gonna be a lot of kind of voice activated ai. Um, and, and then, you know, like, kind of like Elon is saying, right? Like, uh, or a lot of these big AI people, it's like the. There's a, a real big argument to say like, already your people call these smartphones. These, at the moment you use for like maybe 10% phone and, and you know, 90% something else. So I think there might be a different hardware device. And I think the screen is something like, we're also very visual as humans. So yeah, I'm kind of interested where all this is going. I'm also terrified. Yes. But, but that's the direction that I see things going in, right? Like a little more voice activated, dying of ui, potentially us switching into different types of like hardware products or experimenting with some new ones. And, and that's kind of just the short term'cause like. Five years from now, man, brace yourself. Everything's

Audrey Chia: 39:01

gonna change. Yeah. And, and with that being said, right, what do you think people can do? Because I am sure that there are a lot of people in different industries, sales and beyond, who are seeing these changes. And it might just hit them, you know, like a wave one day and we realize that, oh, oh no. Like lots of my current work, you know, streams are no longer as relevant. What is perhaps one piece of advice you could give to folks to try to adapt to this new world?

Christian P: 39:26

Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing that I suffer from first, right, is to like always feel like you're behind. Right? And, and that usually, and also the fact that most people identify as non-technical people. I think those two things are very dangerous because all of us have to adapt. It doesn't mean that we have to change our entire life right at this moment, and we have to be as good as Elon Musk at doing things. It just means we need to. Accept that there's, there are going to be tools that can help us in what we love doing or do for work. Um, that can be very beneficial and that AI can help us in some of those ways. Um, and to, to be open to learning because I think like when someone identifies as non-technical, they're just like, I, I don't know, this techie stuff. And it's like, that's dangerous.'cause it's not even giving you the opportunity to maybe like learn something. The second thing I'd say is choose very wisely. Like I'm actually not against people testing out AI tools, uh, but the biggest problem is that people try to use too many tools. Honestly, for me, there's maybe three or four tools that I use Recurringly there are specific to what I'm trying to do. That help a lot. And I think for people, there are a handful and there's probably usually one core one that, you know, should be, um, the one that they should be adopting. And, and it takes a while to find what that tool is. Yes. But it can really help you do what you already do better. So instead of like the endless possibilities of what's possible, it's like, no, no, no. Look at what you currently already do. Yes. And figure out what can help you do that quicker, better. And potentially for me it might just be a, a, an efficiency gain so you can spend more of your time either doing things that you enjoy doing, hanging out with family or like, or, um, being more focused on the, the strategic side of things. Right. And I think that's kind of like one of the good things about AI is that it's allowing the average person to take advantage of technology in a way that before it was really more reserved to nerds.

Audrey Chia: 41:20

Yeah. I think to add to your point, um, having that mindset where you're open to learning growth, right? Being able to take on new challenges and opportunities is really gonna help. So even for me, I was being taught that my job is gonna be replaced when AI first launched, which is also why I pivoted and leaned into it. And it has helped me to grow so much in my own business and in my client's business. So non-technical folks can also learn to leverage tools and build something that's incredible out there. So to wrap us off, Christian, what are your top maybe three to four tools you can't live without?

Christian P: 41:54

Oh man. Let's see. Um, top four tools that instead of that, let me tell you the top four tools that I think have a lot of leverage right now. Um, I think that, um, AI coding is, um, you know, I'll give you maybe like. Like lovable, I think is a really cool platform. Um, and, and then if you're trying to, you know, that, that is really to test out ideas, to prototype and to, and I think that's where a lot of ideas fail, and that's okay. It's okay if they fail at that point, but also over engineering products that don't yet have like some sort of fit also doesn't make sense. So like people are like, oh. You know, like it's, it's not good enough for production level. Yeah. A hundred million people in the, yeah. Okay, that's fine. I, I can agree with, with, with some of that, but also that's quickly changing and also it's like, what, so you're gonna spend the next two years building a product that you don't know if some people are gonna want, like, because you want it to scale to millions when you don't even have the first a hundred people in it. So I think like lovable would be one of the first ones, and I think that's a really, really powerful one. Um, that connects with super base, which is my second, um, kind of for the database. Um, I would say that gamma, like present, like anyone who's had experience creating presentations overnight to present to clients or proposals for clients or, I mean, I just find that like gamma is, is really cool at transforming like information into visual slides and that can be used in a number of different ways. Um. I, I mean for me, outbound is one of those kind of tools where it's like everyone needs customers and regardless of how you're planning on reaching them, definitely, you know, you should be thinking about that. Um, I think that on the content creation side of things, um, I would probably say that it is still early days for, but there's some interesting signs. To be able to create great content leveraging AI tools. So like, I think Nana Banana has shown this year that like Google is taking a very big position in, in this space and, and to promote products. Right. And I think that, um, UGC ads, although they're a little bit deceptive sometimes, I think that like the, the idea that we can have products now in motion and, you know, that's really, that's really cool. Um. Yeah. Let's see. Honestly, any, any LLM, like, this is the other thing, like everyone's like this LLM is better than that. Yeah. And they're constantly upping each other. Yes. But just find one and, and kind of like work with that consistently and try to, you know, and I think one thing that you said earlier really like, resonates for me, it's like p you know, it's like you are in copywriting essentially, right? Man, the first industry to get disrupted by AI when chat GPT hit was exactly that. In fact, I have a buddy who built a a platform before, you know, chat. GPT even came out. But actually, instead of thinking there's like kind of both mentalities, right? Instead of being like, oh no, I'm gonna be out of a job. No, no, no. You leverage that and something that people think is completely commoditized because you understand that actually it still requires some good know-how. So I think people kind of underestimate, we already have a first couple people building agencies doing outreach for people with outbound. And so like, for example, with, with what you're doing, it's like you've built an agency around using your frameworks, uh, together with AI to be able to create great copy. Right? And I think that that's something that people kind of forget that, you know, software developers forget that. AI is more than an opportunity for them than something that's gonna take their job. Right? But it's really a double-edged sword, right? Like I also think that like, yes, mediocre programming is kind of dead, but that basically means that people who learn programming and understand this are in the best position to. Build the next generation of these types of products, but also know how to, you know, uh, make something even more production ready. So I would encourage people to basically like lean into the opportunities right now that, that this is opening up for them. Um, and. Yeah, don't play around with too many tools.

Audrey Chia: 45:49

Yes, find your focus. Stick to one, but learn to get really, really good at it. And of course, don't forget to try out out one. Thank you again, Christian, for being on the show and for sharing your insights. And thank you folks for tuning in. Thank you so much. Don't forget to hit the bell for more actionable AI and marketing insights. We'll see you next week. Take care.