The AI Marketer's Playbook

43 | How Annika Helendi Builds AI Workflows for Lean Marketing Teams

• Audrey Chia, Annika Helendi • Season 1 • Episode 43

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How can lean B2B marketing teams punch above their weight? In this episode, Audrey Chia speaks with Annika Helendi, founder of AI Marketing Masters and former CMO of Toggl, about building AI-powered workflows that automate everything from content repurposing to visual creation. Annika shares how she scaled Toggl to 2M signups with SEO content — and how her automation system now saves her hundreds of hours by transforming YouTube videos into newsletters, carousels, and more. 

A must-listen for marketers ready to do more with less.

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Audrey Chia:

Hello and welcome back to the AI Market Playbook where we cover actionable frameworks to help you leverage AI and marketing strategies in your business. I'm Audrey Chair, your host, and today I have with me Aika Helland. Now Aika helps B2B SA Startups. Scale much faster with content marketing and she's no stranger to results. She has generated over 2 million signups for Toggle using SEO driven content, and has worked with more than a hundred tech founders and marketers as a strategy consultant these days. Amika is the creator behind the AI marketing Masters community and YouTube channel where she teaches. Practical, no fluff AI workflows that save small teams hundreds of hours. Anika, we are so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having

Annika Helendi:

me.

Audrey Chia:

We would love to know a bit more about your journey, right? Did you always start with, in marketing, have you always been a marketer? And then how did you start introducing AI into your workflows?

Annika Helendi:

yeah. So like 15 years ago I started working as a marketer in-house. In a regular company at first, but, pretty quickly a few years later, I ended up in Toko, which is a startup. And after that I've been in the tech world ever since. And, that experience in Toko really shaped me because we didn't have any marketing budget. the whole budget was my salary, so we had to try everything and anything that didn't cost anything, and try to make the company grow to get more signups. And, that way I was able to. Experiment with a lot of stuff and I really quickly realized that content marketing is our best bet. And, by doing lots of good content, figuring out lots of different strategies, SEO and content really scaled us, a lot. And that's how during my time there, which was a bit over four years, we. generated close to, 2 million signups, then just from SEO efforts. So this was a really good, experience. And after that, I worked, in lots of other companies as well in different roles, but it's always close to marketing. So, I've been a co-founder in a few startups. I've been a CEO, but mostly in the CMO role. And for the past like five years I've been doing strategic consulting. And about two years ago, everything changed when chat GPT was launched because, this was really exciting and I saw that. This is something that's going to change how we all work. And I also saw an opportunity in, doing really big things with a really small team. So that's what's always kinda, making me excited how to give the underdogs, a bit more of an edge. I have worked with some big companies with big budgets as well, but, not with that many. So usually the. The resources are always limited. So I love the opportunity that AI gives and especially build AI automations. So I see the biggest, wins, there, whoever is, learning, to use AI automations, AI agents now in the best possible way. and it's all through content in the end.

Audrey Chia:

And I love that you said AI gives the underdogs like a chance to win, right? And like what you do, right? You work with startups, and startups normally have a pretty lean and mean budget. Usually when I work with founders, they're like. Zero cost maximum results. Yes, always. I think you are very familiar with that as well. I know you talked a bit about automation, right? Can you tell us a bit more, because not everybody is familiar with the space of automation and it seems like such a buzzword or a fluff word. Right. What exactly can you do with it right now?

Annika Helendi:

So maybe I can quickly show you already, like what my automation is doing for me. So I'll share my screen here. Okay. You can see my screen now, right? Yes. Perfect. Okay. So automation gives me an opportunity to. let's say I do all of the repetitive tasks that I otherwise would be spending too much time on. So this is my content system, and this, as you can see, it has, 2.0 back here because it's already like the second biggest iteration. So basically how it works, I'm using make.com. This is all of the automation part, but, Airtable is my database. So this is where it all gets started. So, here I can add ideas. So you can see some ideas here, or as an input. I can add YouTube links. So I create YouTube videos. So, I can then add a YouTube link here. And for example, one of the actions I can do with my content system with the automations is to transcribe to YouTube video. And it also scrapes, the title, the description, transcript, it creates YouTube chapters. So these are the things that. Every, each one of these things takes a lot of time. especially like the transcription, but even doing the chapters, figuring out when exactly I started talking about something else. I. And, once I have this information here, I can keep doing something else with this content. So then I can do a blog, draft, a newsletter. For example, here, I already generated a newsletter, draft as well, so I never post it, right away. It's always as a draft. even though I spent a lot of time. Making these prompts really personal and really good. I always want this to sound like me, so, I always go through them before I actually publish them. But just getting this draft here, it saves me so much time and, because it's using all of the information that I got, for example, from this YouTube transcript and, for example, it has the YouTube link already then in the newsletter. Text, it's already linking to the right stuff, and I have built so many other, things here as well. For example, I'm also linking to the sat, table here where I have all my, like affiliate links or the other like, two links that I use a lot of the time. So here I can just say like, oh, okay, in this idea, I also want to, talk about SEMrush, for example. And then it automatically takes SEMrush ass link, the call to action, whatever I need to use. So I'm doing lots of different stuff here. And, for example, some random idea that I had. for example, I, read the book Casual Advertising, recently. I love the copywriting tips there. And, so I added this idea here, and then I have one workflow where I research a topic. So I created this research report. it's, basically got all of the information that I wanted about the book here, and then I created carousel images for, LinkedIn. And so my automation created these, carousel images as well.

Audrey Chia:

it's amazing that it's not just the content, but it's the content with the visuals that's generated with your automations.

Annika Helendi:

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm always like thinking what do exactly do I want to use? And since the carousel images work so well, of course these are all like using this one type of template, but I can add new templates as well. It just takes some time to set it all up. Yes. but once it's set up, it saves so much time and, Basically, this is my kind of system and I keep improving it. For example, there are also like LinkedIn text post here and here I'm using, different types of like copywriting, like templates or formulas, like the story posts, the observational how to, so then I can choose like which type of post like works best with that topic. And I can, again, I'm gonna take, make some edits to it as well before I publish. but it saves me so much time when I have all of these options, all of these drafts ready. so yeah, this is basically something that I keep improving all the time. right now I had like 12 different actions I can do. I can do like script templates from other tiktoks. For example, if I find like somebody's TikTok that is really cool and I kind of want to copy their hook or something. Then I can also add it, here. And then I ask, my content system to kind of scrape the TikTok, find what the hook is, how it works, and then create like three alternative hook versions for me as well. So these are all of the use cases that I think would be valuable. And then I just, figure out how to build them. And right now they are in this monster content system for me. And since I'm non-technical, it probably could be much cleaner. But I just like to build stuff in a way that it works and I'm not always thinking like how nice it looks. So, this is basically what I'm working on and what I mean by automation. so it's all coming from what I want to do anyway. I. So I'm doing, tiktoks, I'm doing LinkedIn posts and everything. So just figuring then out what parts I can automate and make easier for myself.

Audrey Chia:

It's so amazing. I can imagine how much work went up front to build this, but I can also imagine how much time it would then save you after building this setup and like when you say you have been iterating Right. And building on this. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, and that's a amazing thing, right? Because you're looking for different use cases and then building on your current system and it's actual use cases that you probably need for yourself and your clients.

Annika Helendi:

Yeah, exactly. And this is something I'm always like learning, like since chat PT came out, like I kind of got obsessed with this topic of like using it in a way that helps me, but just like copy pasting from chat g pt, it. Seems kind of basic and I feel like everybody can do it then the time savings in the end like aren't that big. Especially if I have to like re-prompt something like, oh, this isn't good enough, let's do it again. So I feel like learning to automate this stuff, gives much more of an edge. And I don't think I'm an expert on this, but I keep learning and I really want to keep this practical for marketers. And what I see right now is that we can do amazing stuff with AI agents and everything but most companies or even startups who should be innovative. They're not using that much automation in marketing at all. Yeah. So it's kinda, there's an opportunity for lots of startups.

Audrey Chia:

Yeah, definitely. And why do you think startups are, you know, not adopting it as quickly? Is it maybe like a knowledge gap or are they still like on the fence with ai? What has been your experience?

Annika Helendi:

Maybe they just don't have time. it's true. It feels like in the startup world right now, there has been kinda like a bit of a crisis anyway. lots of marketing people have been let go. so I think the marketing people who still have a job, they are overworked. And even though these automations would save them time, they don't have the time to kind of learn how to use them.

Audrey Chia:

Yes, definitely. I think that is definitely the case because in a startup, like you are a all in one person and then mm-hmm you still need to get a lot of your day to day stuff done, plus fire fight. And then if you wanna add on ai, you really need to be conscious about making time. Right. And space for you to learn. Curious to know, how long did it take you to pick up all these new skill sets, given that you said you don't have a coding background, right?

Annika Helendi:

Yeah. I think I don't know, like I'm still learning, so I can't say that I know everything. But, I think building the first automation, it took me like a few days. I first took like a Udemy course on Airtable just to learn like what I can do with this tool. and even within near table, you can build automation. So you don't even have to use, make.com or anything like that. but. After that, I kind of got obsessed and I started looking at, some YouTubers who were doing these really cool automation tutorials. but what I didn't like about their tutorials was just the outputs. were like, oh, and then there's the blog post, and then there's this LinkedIn post and it looked horrible. So I really want to create, AI content that looks almost okay, so we can actually use it.

Audrey Chia:

I think that the difference is perhaps that maybe they are not trained copywriters or marketers, which means that when they look at an output to them, it sounds okay. Yeah. But as a marketer or writer yourself, you would know that this really sounds too much like AI and it's not something that you personally would like to use. Right. So. Bridging your skillsets from marketing and copy and content with AI seems like a great fit, but when it comes to perhaps, the human in the loop. Right. I think you also mentioned reviewing that. How do you think people should balance using AI and automation, versus that humans of things? what is the right balance to you?

Annika Helendi:

Yeah. I, at least right now, it seems that it's a good idea to have the you human input aI doing a bunch of stuff with your prompts that you have really like taken time to figure out. And then in the end, before you publish anything, I would also say human has to be there. So I think the most value comes this way. I think at one point it's probably, maybe even right now, but I haven't figured it out yet, it's maybe easy to automate the input, the idea generation fully as well. If the AI agent knows everything about you. Does like really specific research, but. Right now, I don't trust it that much. but I think still, publishing the content before you publish it, you have to review, you have to edit. You have to make it your own.

Audrey Chia:

Yes. I think it's having the human lens right, will ensure that the quality of content doesn't drop. And the last thing you wanna do is suggest copy and paste whatever AI gives you. Because there still could be areas where you know, it's tool ai like you, it's very clear that. The M dashes are used all over the place and you sort of know like, hmm, I think that's chat GPT. Yeah. So having that human in the loop is definitely important. But for, perhaps for companies that are just starting with AI and figuring out if they should automate things, what are some basically, maybe high leverage things that businesses can do, or where should they begin in this journey?

Annika Helendi:

I like to say that, start automating stuff that you're already doing, some type of task that, you already know how the output looks like, what the input has to be like, something you're doing manually, maybe every day or every week. So that's the perfect task to automate. what's a mistake that I made at first, and lots of people and companies want to do is like maybe they don't do any video marketing at all, no experience with it. And then they're thinking, okay, we're gonna use AI to start doing video. So I don't think that's a good idea. so start automating and using AI for tasks that you already know what, where, how a good output looks like, so you can evaluate, if it's doing a good job or not. Otherwise, you're gonna look really fake and, you can ruin your reputation.

Audrey Chia:

The interesting point you mentioned of a company needs to first know how to do something before automating it seems like very counterintuitive, right? You would think that, oh, maybe I am not doing this. Let's ask ai. But the point is that if you ask AI to do something that you don't have experience doing, the output may not actually be that great because you can't guide AI and shape it in that perspective. How do you think a company can get AI to create content that, you know, fits its tone of voice? What are some things that you normally tell your clients to look out for? because again, there's a lot of vanilla AI content out there. Mm-hmm.

Annika Helendi:

actually, I experimented with the tone of voice and like, giving ai some writing examples from like previous blog posts and other stuff, I didn't find it working that well. so it seems it's like I have figured out some prompts or I have this master human content humanizing prompt it feels like this does a bit better job. I don't think most companies have that unique of a voice especially in B2B SaaS space. So, it's more about making the AI content sound more like a human, not necessarily like that company, because yeah, none of the company's voices are that unique. so, there are some, like in the B2C space, like the Wendy's like Twitter account or whatever, like, I'm not talking about that, but that's a exception. Like mostly you just wanted to sound a human, but I think it's more about the content of it. So it's like, I think it's more about the copywriting formulas that work. So you should put more, effort into figuring out what do you want your target group to see and how to react and, like, you know, as a marketer, often they don't even know who the target group persona exactly is and who they're talking to. So these things, I feel like these are always like baked into the automations as well, where you have to say like you are servicing, my target group. Their pain points. Are these, their jobs to be done? Are these, I think if you give these types of prompts to ai, it's doing a pretty good job, with the content as well. And again, like the general content humanizing things where it's like, oh, use active voice, simplify the speech a bit to the, like sixth grade level or something like that. So there are lots of like things I can do there. And also more and more I'm asking AI to add some imperfections. So it wouldn't be so perfect. So it feels like, uh, perfect text is now, kind of frowned, upon.

Audrey Chia:

Yeah, it's very interesting, right? In the past we used to want to aim for perfect right thing, but in the future, maybe adding that more human like language, you know, adding a bit of like cheekiness in your own personal stories is gonna make a brand seem a lot more alive. And I think as, AI becomes more and more mainstream. We are gonna see a lot more content out there. and I think it's gonna be a much noisier marketplace. And speaking of which, right? How do you think the marketing landscape is going to change with ai? I.

Annika Helendi:

Oh, I think this is, kind of scary, but also exciting. I do feel like I'm already seeing lots of marketing people getting laid off and they're not finding new jobs. And I think this is already, because of ai, I. But not necessarily that the startups are using AI in the right way, replacing those marketing people, I feel like there's a big gap still. but I do think lots of marketers are going to lose their jobs and not, get the new job, because AI is going to do. A lot of stuff that we used to do manually, and it's just going to be the reality. but at the same time, if you are more entrepreneurial, there are so many opportunities right now. And, for me personally, I was, Super focused on SEO content strategies. Because this was my bread and butter, I was able to scale lots of startups with, these strategies. But, this has changed a lot as well, AI content, especially like SEO content, that's informational, educational, top of the funnel. It's so easy and cheap to create it with, ai and also now the AI search engines, like you're not even gonna get the kick because, they're gonna get the, answers in Googling perplexity and whatever, so SEO is not the same anymore. So you kind of have to relearn some new skills, kind of think about what you want your career to be. So this is what I've been doing the past two years as well, kind of taking, a new look at what I want to do. And basically it's still the same. I want to help companies grow and I want to, as I said, underdogs to win against the bigger guys. And just the methods are going to change right now. and it's, the changes are so quick that it's kind of hard to see where do they go. But at the same time, like the regular companies and even like lots of startups, they're still not using ai, almost at all. So it's a weird time right now.

Audrey Chia:

I think it's interesting you brought up two points that I have also personally noticed. So, I think marketers definitely seeing that or feeling that change slowly. I think maybe in the US or in Europe, that change is about a lot faster in Asia. Still a bit slower. Okay. But I think that when it hits my part of the world, you will see that big shift. Like what you said, a lot of companies are already thinking, how can I reduce hit count or streamline my workflows with ai? But the other thing is they are asking their interns to use AI to create an output, but that's also not the right way to do things because unless your intern is already well equipped with the foundations of marketing of content, the way they use AI would also be, you know, in a way where. It's not influenced by strategy, it's not influenced by, you know, that deep experience. Right. And that means output. That also isn't that great, right? So the, interesting space that companies need to be in is if they wanna use AI and leverage it, they still need, I believe, someone with deep experience to pair together with ai, and to get things done. And I think for me, that is the future of marketing, right? Having that deep industry insight, your. Additional value to the table, while still understanding AI abilities. So for yourself, what do you think marketers should start learning right now if they haven't already started? I.

Annika Helendi:

Yeah, I think you're so right. just I wanted to comment, since I am doing this strategy consulting, and I also like to check like what AI is going to say. Like what is AI's version of this strategy that I'm creating for this client, for example, and fortunately it's. Like, to my experience, it seems so general, like, for a untrained eye, it probably looks like, oh yeah, we should start doing all of these things, But it's not strategic. It's like it covers everything and it's like, it's not, incorrect, but you won't get anywhere if you're trying to do all of these things that AI is saying. So I totally agree that strategy and my deeper experience is still needed and is still better than AI is, able to come up with, but who knows how long. So that's kind of the scary part. but in terms of like, where to go, You can copy me. I see that, video is the main medium that's still kind of hard to replicate with AI in a way that, builds trust. So video based, content, I think, It's worth to go into that, even though it's pretty hard. But we have to do hard things sometimes. and another thing is, yeah, learning to automate, things with ai. I think this gives you the true power and you don't even have to go too deeply into the automation space. Like, those simple automations help you already so much, like doing research with one, AI module, doing, Content, with the other module, bringing them together into one tool. For example, Airtable for me. And then you already have so much done for you and you save so much time by having those drafts already there. And if you need to change something, you change the general prompt and each time it's already better. So I think this basic automation, skills are going to pay off a lot. I've looked into building AI agents as well. This is all the rage right now, but I don't actually see that many use cases. Practical use cases for content marketers. maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. with some agents it seems like I could do the same stuff I can do with automations. So it doesn't really matter which one I'm doing. So I don't know, maybe I haven't looked too well into it, but for now, like it feels like you don't have to go crazy with whatever you're hearing that's going on. Like, I know it's overwhelming for most people, but just learn like the basic stuff and start doing it for your repetitive tasks, and you're already going to be so much better off than, most marketers I would say.

Audrey Chia:

It's easy to get overwhelmed with all the information there is up there, and if you're gonna try to learn something new every day on top of your job, that's going to be, you know, it takes a lot, right? So like what you say, right? Perhaps. Maybe looking at a problem first approach, figuring out what are some repetitive tasks, things that you often do for your clients or your company, and then figuring out what are the skill sets you need to get there that could be a better solution than hopping on the next trending tool or the next best thing. And I think agents are still really new. People are still exploring and experimenting with it. The agents that I have also noticed so far don't really perform as well as, many people claim because we're still in the early stages. But I think there is definitely going to change. But I'm curious to know also Ika, like for. New marketers, like students right now who are learning, marketing, content, copywriting, what do you think they need to do in order to evolve and adapt to this new world?

Annika Helendi:

I would recommend to maybe master the algorithm of one channel, like really understand maybe it's, short from video, maybe TikTok. Then, linked to videos. I think this is going to be pushed way more so, but I think this may be like the same skill. So understanding, what makes, short from videos, really. click and, get lots of views. lots of engagement.

riverside_annika_helendi — take 02 _ may 27, 2025 001_podcast:

and I think this gives an edge over those marketers who have 10 years of experience and are also on the job market right now. another one is maybe LinkedIn video is super popular now or getting popular. I think there's a competitive edge that could be there if you really know like how to. leverage that and like learn the skills of that. So, and how to learn it. I don't think you can go to a school for that. I think you have to just start posting and, creating videos and that's the only way to learn, lots of mistakes and just, seeing what kind of works and what doesn't work. It's very interesting. I had a conversation with a friend who is a teacher in the school, in Singapore and the education ministry in Singapore. They had huge conversations about how do we teach our students and what do we teach them, right? Because you have the teachers who need to first understand. This new skill set. And then you have students who need to understand that, they have to evolve and adapt to this world, but they don't know what the future of what is gonna look like. So I think we live in very exciting times for, you know, people who are already in the workforce as well as those who are picking up new skill sets. But maybe one thing on my end is, I've noticed for you as well, is you have that growth mindset, right? That mentality to want to learn and grow. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you can't really succeed any other way, and after Jet GPT came out and became mainstream, like it's not even an option to have a fixed mindset and, just to have a job anymore. I think maybe some government jobs are gonna keep you for years and, they're not gonna notice. But overall, everything is going to change. So I wouldn't, risk it to just think that your skills are enough right now. And for businesses who are still on the fence. Right. What kind of opportunities do you think AI can give them? Like what have you seen in terms of like the perks of, you know, using AI so far? I think the biggest perks are for really boring businesses, like these old school businesses that, figure out how to do marketing with AI or like how to do these, simple repetitive tasks. Like I said, for example, they have some real, usually they have some really. Manual process for like sending invoices or creating proposals, or maybe they get, some corporations give the marketing materials from some other country, they have to translate them to their own version. Something like that. It usually takes hours, but with AI, they could automate it and, save hours every week. So I think there are opportunities for those, kind of boring businesses, out there a lot, for startups. I don't know. It's, kind of tricky and, everybody's kind of doing AI in some way. most of them are actually not doing it. so what I have heard in education and in business, in startups everywhere is, that the management buys like, some like Chachi PT access or copilot or whatever, and then they're like, okay, now we have ai. And, even better if, some, somebody comes and like explains like, well, how to use chat g pt, and some, I don't know, like a one hour, course or something like that. And then they say, oh, we are AI powered, or a AI empowered company. So I don't think, we are quite there. So I think it's the companies that are going to use AI in a really good way, automate the. Important stuff, that can be automated. And I think in marketing, the opportunity comes, to do so much more with a small team. For example, my goal is to do. A really big, brand and products and I want to, grow my community first as well, with just being a solo founder. And I don't plan on doing like a big team, at least right now. So I want to kind of prove to myself as well that I can build this really smart automations and agents. And while learning how to do it, I'm teaching others as well. And I'm hoping that I can do this way bigger company, all on my own. so I think for lots of companies, it becomes also an opportunity to do really big things with a really small team. I think that's the beautiful part about ai, right? Like now you can run 10 times faster than before, get things done so much faster while still maintaining the quality, especially if you're using it in a very strategic way. I would like to also maybe double click on your expertise in the B2B marketing space, right? So you've worked with tons of startups, and led like, you know, teams to build their marketing strategies. Could you maybe perhaps share like three. Core tips that you have for startup founders who are thinking about leveraging marketing, not just ai, but just content marketing in general to grow their business. Yeah, I think, for B2B especially, I would recommend to hire somebody like me, basically, who knows how to automate these systems, how to get the really good strategy going and get your marketing team up to date with all of these systems, these new skills, knowledge. Because as I see, they don't have the time to do it on their own while they are like working their full-time job. And two other jobs, basically that got, Somebody got let go and now the big team is a small team so they don't have time to kind of keep up with everything. So I would hire, AI focused consultant. Do a big audit, add new, systems in place, new workflows, and then also have bigger goals for the content output, for example, but content output that maintains really high quality. So that's the key. so your question was about three things to do, right? So one is, yeah. So one is, hiring a consultant who kinda. That's a big o like, audit and the overhauls, like everything you have going on in the marketing team. the second thing that I think is working really well, and I think you see it as well, is personal brands, on LinkedIn, for example. So I would definitely make the CEO the main face of the brand and I would do a video first. it is kind of hard for a lot of people, so maybe then text and images, but, still taking that stance and becoming the face of the company. that will be my second tip and the third one. Actually, I'll keep my third tip as the video first. So, B2B like SCO has been the main strategy for like 15 years now. And it pains me to say this because that's how I have been making money and how I've been growing companies. but it doesn't work the same way anymore, so. The topical, authority strategy where we created like hundreds of articles about, different, top of the funnel topics. Like it doesn't work anymore. of course we can do it with ai, but then I would say like, let's do hundreds of articles with ai. Like let's automate everything so you can see quicker that it has some effect, but not the same that it used to have. and so I would lean into more the personal brand and then video first, like long form video for B2B SaaS. I would start creating really good, middle of the funnel videos, showcasing your product, how it solves really specific niche, problems for a target group, and becoming like the personal consultant over YouTube, for example, for your target group. And being super detailed and helpful, and I think this is going to help you. First of all, if you have a lot of information out there, of course if you have the video, you're automatically doing the newsletter, and everything else, with the help of AI as well, and AI search engines, then have more information about your product as well. So if somebody is in the buying phase. AI knows about the, all the features that your product has, all the use cases, if you have covered these in those long form videos and those long form videos become into text, based content as well. So I would lean into that more right now. So these are my tips. Interesting.'cause you have been in the like B2B SaaS space working on SEO content, right? So now that there's ai, how can brands start pivoting towards that? Do they still focus on creating articles? Do they need to adapt their strategy for an AI first search world? What does that look like? I would focus on video first, middle of the funnel. I would kind of forget about top of the funnel overall right now, if it's not, through the personal brand, because yeah, top of the funnel, it just has diminishing returns now. and ai search engines, if you optimize for those, you're still not gonna get the click. It's going to show that information. You're not gonna get the click. The only time it's, useful for you is if the person who is using the AI search engine is at the buying stage and they are asking ai which tool is best optimizing for that bottom of the funnel. that still makes sense and I would put all of my energy there, in contact duration. And does, do you know if AI generator content is being penalized or is it still like a gray area where nobody really knows what's going on? as far as I know, it's not directly being punished, by Google, but it's not working. I have seen so many sites now, from clients where they have generated lots of articles with ai or they have used more likely an agency, and I can tell right away, say a content. And why it's not ranking. And some, sites have even like lost all of the traffic, which is a tragedy. it's not because it's AI content, it's because the content is bad. It's thin content. There's no value. Like, you can use ai, but then you have to know exactly what you want to say with that content. You have to treat it as the first draft. You have to add that value. On your own or you have to do really good prompts, you have to add that information as input. So if you're just doing the laziest version of AI content, then it doesn't work not because it's ai, but because it's bad. Something that maybe founders and marketing teams should also pay attention to, right? Because it's easy to assume that. If you get more content out, that's always a good thing. But bad content doesn't mean like good results. It's gonna be bad content, bad results amplified. Right? That's something that teams should know. Yeah. So maybe moving forward, right? Anika, where do you see your own business? what do you envision for yourself? I have this problem where I'm always getting excited by new things. So I have like 20 failed startup ideas somewhere. but right now I'm really focused and excited to, grow my YouTube channel, which means that I have to learn about new ways to, use AI marketing in a really good way. And if I keep learning, I can teach others. And I'm also inviting everybody to join me@aimarketingmasters.com, which is my private community where. I'm sharing all of those resources, the shortcuts, the blueprints for the automations and the prompts. So I want to keep this private and also give my advice and, recommendations to whoever is, part of the community. So being a solo founder or solo marketer or freelancer is quite lonely, so I really feel like this is the thing I really want to do for the next couple of years. so I'm really trying not to get too excited about some new startup ideas and, trying to keep my focus on this. And that sounds incredibly exciting, and I know it will be immensely valuable to so many other entrepreneurs, founders, and people just trying to get started with ai. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. Anika. Where can people find you? How should they join your community? the best way is to check off my YouTube channel, Anika Helen De. And, then yeah, ai marketing masters.com. this is the private community. The price, goes up after every, I think, 20 or 50 members. So locking your price and join now. and I'm also on LinkedIn. I. Awesome. So if I were you, I'm gonna secure that seat right now because we all know that prices are just gonna go up. So thank you again, Anika, for sharing your insights. And thank you folks for tuning in. Don't forget to hit the bell for more actionable AI and marketing insights. We'll see you next week. Take care.