31 | $75M with No Code: Heather Murray’s AI-Powered Personalization Framework

In this episode of The AI Marketer’s Playbook, Audrey interviews Heather Murray, founder of AI for Non-Techies and Top 20 MarTech influencer. Heather shares her journey from running a marketing agency to building a thriving AI education platform. She opens up about generating $75M in client pipeline using hyper-personalized AI workflows—without writing a single line of code. Heather breaks down her early experiments with tools like Crystal Nose and how she now builds end-to-end AI-powered sales and marketing systems using platforms like Claude, ChatGPT, Humantic, and Clay.

Heather also walks through a live hyper-personalization demo, showing how to go from a cold LinkedIn list to deeply personalized outreach paired with custom lead magnets—at scale. The episode is packed with practical advice for marketers, business owners, and copywriters looking to integrate AI into their workflows without losing their human touch.

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Transcript

Audrey Chia: 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the AI Marketer's Playbook where we cover actionable frameworks to help you leverage AI and marketing strategies in your business. I'm Audrey Cheah, your host, and today I have with me Heather Murray, a generative AI expert, top 20, martech influencer, international speaker, and Founder of AI for Non Techies, a training and learning hub dedicated to making AI accessible for everyone. Now, Heather has been regularly featured on Forbes and is known for helping people, individuals, and small business owners alike overcome their confusion and fear when diving into AI. But she has also worked with the big giants like Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Salesforce, driving an impressive 75 billion in client pipeline in 2023. All powered by AI. Heather, I have been waiting to speak with you. I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Heather Murray: 0:50

I'm so here to, I've been, I was just thinking I'm so excited to finally be speaking to you. It's been such a long time I've been following you and you've been following me and we've gone like this but we've never quite Had the chance to talk, so I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for bringing me on. So

Audrey Chia: 1:02

our parallel paths finally converge. And I am super excited for that. And I know both of us started our AI journey, you know, really early on, right? I would love to know a bit more about your story, how you got started in the whole world of AI.

Heather Murray: 1:14

Yeah, sure. So I was, I've been a marketer for 20 years and I was running my own marketing agency. It was my first business called Beasting Digital and we had a client that had a very, very high ticket item and they were looking for a way to appeal to their audience that they, you know, they were knocking on lots of doors and nobody was answering. so they came to us, we worked through another agency. And I was just Googling, it was entirely by accident, and I typed in a few ideas and I found a tool called Crystal Nose, which is still around. there are lots of different versions of it now, but that at the time was the only one available. And what that does is it uses AI to analyze the personality of your prospects using their LinkedIn profile. So there's now, Human Linker, Humantic is a really good one. There's loads of different versions, but at the time, really new. so. Because we didn't have ChatGPT, we didn't have Claude or any of those things, and this was early 2022 actually. and we, we analysed the personalities and we got that information, and then we took it, through to our human copywriters and human editors, and then our VA who came and sent, sent out the messages, so we created these really personalised LinkedIn outreach messages. And it really worked. So we managed to sell six of those and it was, that was very high ticket and it was amazing. And then we, we tried with a different type of client, slightly less, and that worked as well. And a different one, even slightly less and that one worked too. So we ended up making, that's how that 75 million worth of pipeline happened. So my head was turned to all things AI. I remember thinking, Oh my God, what is this thing? And so from that moment on, I was interested in AI. I started to read up about it. I started to look out for things. And late, it was probably about December 2022, maybe a month after, maybe a few weeks after ChatGPT came out. I remember sitting here in this office, I opened it up, I typed something into it, I don't even know where, where I found ChatGPT, I think somebody recommended it, and I remember thinking two things, the first thing was, my agency, I'm so scared for my, because I had a copywriting agency, so scared for us, I worry that this is going to kill us, and it really made me panic, and then on the flip side, because I'm quite a positive person, I thought, this, I'm at the beginning of something here now. This could be a chance to get ahead of most people because this has just started. And I remember thinking back to people who were at the beginning of the internet, and the beginning of loads of different types of technologies, and thinking, I could teach myself as much as I possibly can and put in more effort than most people would be willing to to learn as much as I can. So it's that, the rest is history. I just spent four or five hours a day learning as much as I possibly could about it, trying to break it, interviewing AI tool founders, and every single time I wanted to stay in the non technical realm, which was I don't want to learn how to code. I always think I've got my phone, I don't know how it works. I, if somebody said how does it, I don't know, I'm speaking, somebody else hears my voice. Magic. And that's fine, and I'll never know how that works, yet I get lots of use out of it. Same with my laptop, same with every piece of technology I use. So I thought, if I can get this 75 million dollars without knowing any technical stuff, then I think I can get really good results with all of this new generative AI technology as well. And, yeah, I have, and, yeah, it's, it's, been a really, really exciting time.

Audrey Chia: 4:15

Wow. And it has been such an amazing journey for you. I know you have, you know, spoken on so many amazing platforms and also coached many people. And of course, now you have AI for non techies, right? Tell us more about that. Like, how did that idea come about and, you know, what got you into that?

Heather Murray: 4:29

Yeah, so I started it up while I was running my agency. It was a newsletter. So I was learning all this stuff. I just said about that I was spending hours every day and I thought, wow, I've got all this information. I want to tell people about it. And my husband, he's not a technical person or not technical. He's not into computers at all. It was, so I need to share this. So I created a newsletter and actually that newsletter was called AI for non techies. And actually what happened was the agency, because my attention went, the agency went like this, but the, the AI for non techies side grew and grew and grew, and people started to ask me, Oh, can you teach us this? Can you share this with me? How did you do that? So I started to do posts about it. So I ended up winding up my agency and then, building AI for non techies. and I just wanted it to be the most easy, simple, accessible place to translate all the technical stuff into really practical tips that anybody can understand and that isn't scary, isn't frightening, isn't overwhelming. And you can just look at it and go, ah, okay, now I get it. And that's, that's what I've tried to do throughout everything I do is to make things very, very simple.

Audrey Chia: 5:31

Wow. And I think that is, that is actually the beauty of AI, right? I think what AI does is it democratizes access to so many different things for people who are maybe non technical, like I myself am a copywriter. So when AI came along or chatGPT came along, I had the same existential crisis. what do I do with this? And I think it's probably a moment of panic for a lot of people. and of course at that point in time, there were people who were, of course, people who are on the fence about it, you know, or people who were not such huge fans about it, but as you know, AI evolved, we see so many different use cases, right, and I'm sure you have seen quite a lot, what are some perhaps interesting use cases or powerful use cases that you have seen with your clients or, you know, in the business?

Heather Murray: 6:13

Oh, so many. I think most of the most interesting or the most, practical use cases aren't they're really amazing. Oh, wow. I've made a million pounds. They've saved an hour every day, one hour every day. Cause who couldn't, who couldn't do with an extra hour in their day, especially really busy people like us running our own businesses, you know, one hour you can do so much. And I feel like when you first start to use these tools, maybe you use it for your admin, so maybe it helps you compose emails or it records your calls so you don't need to write the notes up and you can follow up with one button. Or, it helps you find leads much more quickly. There are so many small things that you can do that make a dramatic difference in your every day. I think that's still the best use case that I've seen. It's, it's not the big glowing, you know, clan, sort of, I haven't had to hire in a year sort of thing. It's the everyday use cases. and I think, I think one of the things with copyright is in particular. Is that people go, this is coming to take my copyright. I think there are two schools of thought. There's, there's one where you could, panic and just completely ignore it and say, No, I'm anti it. I don't want to do that. And another one where you realize that you can use it wherever you like. If you enjoy doing something, I, for example, I love writing my LinkedIn posts. I could use AI to write them. I don't need to. I don't want to. I, it's something I enjoy doing. It's something I think I'm quite good at. And it's an outlet for me too. I'm, I'm not going to use AI in that part, but I will use it to maybe think of ideas or maybe, deduce my tone of voice to write other things in that same language or so many different things. so I think I've not, maybe not answered your question. I've just gone around, but I think one of the points that I'd like to share with people is that it isn't about replacing everything and it isn't about replacing the bits about your job that you love. It's about helping you with the bits that you don't, that we all have.

Audrey Chia: 7:56

Yeah, definitely. I think one interesting thing, from a copywriting perspective, I realized that copywriters are the best people to prompt for copy in the same vein, art directors are the best people to prompt for, you know, design, right? Because you sort of have that vision that you are working towards. And because you already have that expertise and knowledge in copy, you can filter out what types of content works with you, what types of content sound more AI, and you know that. Instantly, right? I think, have, have you seen that as well?

Heather Murray: 8:24

Yeah, absolutely. I always say that. So AI is best in the hands of the experts, isn't it? Because you can describe what good looks like and you could recognize it the other side. So to, like, exactly like you say, to write a prompt, you need to write all the details and have, know all the knowledge and the documents. That, that AI will need to do a good job and only a copywriter would actually know that, wouldn't they? And so you can produce more, you can do more good stuff, but you need to have that talent and that knowledge and that original thought in the first place. I also think with copywriting, people say about outsource, they worry about original thought and the AI can't be original, but I think it can prompt, it can ask you questions that prompt ideas in you. So it's still human original thought. It's still human creativity.

Audrey Chia: 9:06

Yeah, and I think what you mentioned about, you know, asking AI to prompt you instead, that is very interesting, right? Cause you're always thinking you have to be the one to prompt AI, but actually it works as a very good intern mentor and even coach. So I myself have seen many amazing use cases where I get it to become my sparring partner or teach me certain skill sets that I don't already have. But instead of asking it for the answer, I ask it to walk me through its thought process so that I can learn in that process, right? So it's, it's also like a very active process instead of just, you know, waiting for an answer after you click that button. I would also be like curious to know what are your thoughts on, you know, how AI is going to change the space of marketing and content writing in general? Yeah,

Heather Murray: 9:50

I think it, there's no question that it's going to radically change it. I think anybody who's saying otherwise is, is wrong. there's no ignoring it. Why would you ignore? It's like ignoring the internet. So say, oh, we're just going to stick to writing posters, painting posters and sticking them on a wall. You know, it would be effective still, but it wouldn't be as effective as maybe doing something on social media. I always think about it like a dishwasher, right? So we, my husband prefers to do the dishes by hand and I will do them in bulk. I have less time. I do them in the dishwasher and he refuses to use the dishwasher. And I think he's kind of representative of those people, not using AI. And I'm representing the people, both, you can do both that you get it done, but one gets it done quicker and sometimes better, and one gets it done a little slower. And sometimes better too, because he might be able to scrub away. but yeah, I think with marketing it will just change everything from lead generation to content creation. I think it's, raising the standards overall. I don't, I think it's going to completely remove. Poor copy, poor image generation, poor cold email. I think, well, everybody's going to level up because it's so easy to create something that's of a better standard now. But those who were already good have gone up as well. So you're able to produce something even better and you have just all these new tools to play with, I think. So all of these new ways to do things, like, like I said with the analyzing people's personalities, you can create content that's specifically for one person. That, and every comma, every word is perfectly for them. I just find that really fascinating. So our ability to analyze data conversationally as well. So I think there's quite a few things where you would have to normally, obviously a marketer is not generally all purpose. You might be a copywriter, for example, and then when you want a design for your blog, you might have to ask a graphic designer. Now you don't have to. You can create something that'd be really good for that blog, or really good for your social post on something like Ideagram. I use Ideagram all the time for my social posts. we can get those things done faster and we don't have to outsource it anymore. We can do more ourselves and that's, that's really exciting. Yeah,

Audrey Chia: 11:41

the, the thing you said that stood out to me was, Doing more by ourselves, right? And I think because AI saves you so much time, you get your time back and now you get the time back to then learn new things, do something that you enjoy even, or just productize or like really make your workflows a lot more effective and productive, right? And that's something that even clients can see. But have you also noticed any specific trends, right? in the kind of marketing landscape. So for me, for one, I see Some very AI like content being put out there and I hear it on YouTube podcasts You can tell that if they they have followed a chat GPT script and sometimes you see LinkedIn posts. They're also very AI like, right? So What do you say to people who are trying to leverage AI but you know, Perhaps missing the mark a little. What, what do you think of that?

Heather Murray: 12:27

I think, and I think LinkedIn comments is a big one as well, isn't it? But I think when I get, I attract those, I'm sure you do as well. And you think, no, people will think I'm in a pod. And then you kind of, it's not, I'm not, I'm not cheating. Honestly, it's just people using AI generate comments. I think people, I think it's good that people are trying, but it gives AI a bad name. And I think there's a big gap that people think it's something instant, don't they? They think it's a one click solution, a bit like Googling. So they want to open chat GPT, swipe in a very short sentence and get a response. But nobody, and this is what I try to teach in my academy as well, is that There's actually a learning curve, but it's very worth it. So like you, like you always are talking about on your LinkedIn as well, learning how to prompt properly is amazing. It's such an amazing skill, but it takes time. It's not a quick fix, but when you've got the prompts, right, you can, you can scale it. So as many, you can create all sorts of different things. Once you've got that prompting skill, which is a writing skill in itself. So copywriters have a huge advantage because they understand how to structure something and how to write them. so we both, I used to be a copywriter too, so we've both got that kind of a, a ability to create a good prompt, which is a really, really good skill right now. but yeah. Did I answer your question?

Audrey Chia: 13:31

Yeah, no, it's, I think that what, what you said, it was very, insightful as well, right? That structured to a prompt. So I think the AI content that we see out. are probably generated because people are using very simple or basic prompts and after they use the prompts, they are not editing the copies. So they are taking that 100 percent AI generated content as is, which of course, to most people wouldn't seem as authentic and real. And I would say that it even perhaps backfires a little bit on your brand, because it almost feels like you didn't put in the effort or that you didn't add your insights, even if you did. Right. So maybe to that, what would you recommend for someone to do if, in terms of workflow wise, how does it look like for you or how would you recommend someone to get started?

Heather Murray: 14:12

I think, it's, it's got to have a human in the loop, hasn't it? AI doesn't work by itself. It's just common misconceptions. People don't realize it's limitations about bias, hallucinations. So. For people who don't realize what that is, it can create things that seem very true, 15 to 20 percent of the time with poor prompts. With good prompts, it can be much, much, less than that. I think as a workflow, you can use AI in every, in every element of it, but you absolutely need a human and that expert eye to be checking throughout. So in the ideation phase, get it to ask you questions to come up with the ideas. Don't get AI to, to, to come up with the ideas. That, I think that's something where people fall down. And if you ask, chances are you're going to ask the same question as other people, you'll get the same ideas. But if it asks you questions, it's coming from your head. So I think ideation should be asking it to ask you questions to come up with ideas. So you've got your ideas, then it can create. If, and you'll really need to learn how to prompt properly to do this, but you can create really good copy, really good first draft copy, and it can be in your tone of voice. Attach as many examples of a specific tone of voice as you can. Think, gather together all your best stuff, and it, that can sometimes take a day to even find everything, but when you have it, that's really gold stuff. So again, remembering it takes time. And then, so you've got your ideation, you've got creation, I would definitely amend it at that point as a human. and then I would have an editing, prompt as well. So think about what you'd like an editor to look at all the different, elements. So do you want them to look at syntax and word choices and tonality and voice and all of these different things and just break them all down and then we'll, you'll have, AI will act like an editor and can create you a report. I would never say get AI to then edit it. I would ask AI to pull out the bits that aren't quite right. and then you finish it. So you end up, it's not making something that used to take four hours four minutes anymore, it's something that used to take four hours, now one hour. But that's how you get the good stuff. It's not about making things instant, it's about making things much more efficient, if you want to maintain that quality. That's how I'd say, that's how I'd I

Audrey Chia: 16:13

love that. I actually tried using chat GPT canvas. Have you experimented with it? A little? Yes. Yeah. Yes. So I realized that there is this, feature where you can ask it to critique its own work. I'm not sure if you've tested that, but I did test that function, which was interesting because after round one, if you hit that button, then it actually, highlights certain parts where it can do better, which is also very interesting because now it's. You know, in that self reflective mode, but I do realize that although it's good at looking for, you know, optimizations, the suggestions that sometimes chat GPT provides could still be very AI like. So that's where, like what you said, that human in the loop, you know, the last 30%, right, coming in to use your personal lens to review the work is extremely, extremely important. What type of AI tools have you tried for copy? And what have you found to be, you know, better for your voxels. Oh, Claude for me. Claude, Claude, Claude. Yes, I agree!

Heather Murray: 17:09

I think, when most people come to me, and it's everybody, because nobody tells us, right? So, like, you, you, you, everybody tries Chats GPT first, and when you first try it, it's magical. You think, I've just created a whole letter, a whole blog in two seconds. It's, it's so exciting. And it's only when you look a little bit further, you think, Oh, that one's really like the one I just generated there. And when I read it, it's actually quite boring. It's like, somebody who's very inexperienced writing. I think it's, it's okay. It's not terrible. It's not full of mistakes or anything like that. But I think we've, Claude and I've been trying to work out exactly why it's so much better. I think it doesn't include those AI generated words, commonly AI generated words, like delve, embrace, realm. they're all Revolutionize. Revolutionize, that's it. Yeah. There's, there's a big list of them. It seems to not use those words. and it just seems to understand nuance so much more. So if I'm creating anything that's going to be read by somebody else. Absolutely clawed every single time. I think it's wonderful.

Audrey Chia: 18:04

I agree. I, I like to think of Chet and GPT as my first boyfriend, like the first person I fell in love with. Like, Oh, I know my heart is so fluttery. You're so amazing. But then you realize that this is not the only option and maybe someone else comes along as your more long term reliable partner. So Chet and I copy consistently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I, I personally have realized that, I try using chat GPT and Claude for similar workflows. Yeah. Claude is much better at understanding and analyzing the tone of voice. Yes. and I know tone of voice is something people struggle with because they're like, how, how do you get AI to understand it? Do you have any tips and tricks for, you know, AI? Getting AI to capture a specific tone of voice or even explore tone of voices.

Heather Murray: 18:47

Yeah, for, for me, I, I, I just think examples are the best. Because you, I think a lot of people try to, describe what they mean by tone of voice. So please write this in, in, and they'll use a few words and we all use the same words. Professional, helpful, friendly, warm. We, we all use the same pool of maybe 30 or 40 words. It would be, AI is going to create the same for everybody because we all use the same words. Whereas, if we upload loads of examples of what we mean, so pick out all your best LinkedIn posts, for example, every single one of them. Make sure they're yours. Or, if you want to replicate the style of somebody else, just pick one person so it's consistent, and then as many examples as you can get. Really fill up the, the most you can add in and then it will analyze. So it will see hundreds of thousands of patterns in that text that humans can't see, and it's able to replicate it so much better then. and also another one would be asking you questions again. So asking you questions about how you want to sound, brands that you'd like to emulate, anything like that. I think so getting it to ask you questions and loads of examples in the prompt will get you where you need to be.

Audrey Chia: 19:50

I think to add to that, right, perhaps one thing that could be interesting for people who are not trained writers or who don't, who don't have like an idea of where to start. what you mentioned about brands, emulating brands, I think it's a very useful and handy tip, right? So for example, if you want to emulate like Apple's iconic tone of voice, iconic Something that you can do so that you give AI that point of reference. And it's also, you know, broad enough, but also specific enough that it can sort of understand what you're looking for as compared to perhaps like McDonald's tone of voice, which is going to be completely different. and that's something that I think people can, can try. So Heather, have you also had, found any other quick hacks that you love using when it comes to copy and content?

Heather Murray: 20:30

Oh yes, I always say, almost always, and it's, it's repeating a little bit what I've said already, but whenever I write a prompt, I say, ask me any clarifying questions you need in order to do the best possible job, every single time I put it at the bottom of my prompt, or ask me any questions you need to do the best possible job, and what the, the, the intelligence level of those questions is unbelievable, and it really makes you think deeper about what it is that you're asking, so. It will ask you maybe three or four questions, answer them with detail and you get a response that's twice as good as you would have got had you not added that in the end. That would be a quick tip I would

Audrey Chia: 21:02

add. I think giving it more context, always adds, I give it the colour, the background, the why. One thing I like to do is to ask it to explain why after it came up with a post or answer because you would realize that AI might be a little bit lazy if you just ask it for five options, right? And then it's going to give you like the bare minimum. But if you ask it to explain why, suddenly it becomes a lot more thoughtful.

Heather Murray: 21:30

That's it. I love that as well. So Whenever I ask for ideas, I always say explain why you've picked that idea as well. So you end up with the idea and the reasoning behind it every time. so yeah, now we have reasoning models, of course, as well. So it's a whole other level of that type of thing. But yeah.

Audrey Chia: 21:44

That's super cool. So right now, I would love for you to share, you know, perhaps a short demo of an actionable workflow that you have implemented perhaps for your clients or something that our audience can also learn from.

Heather Murray: 21:55

Sure. Yeah, I'm going to share my screen. I'm actually going to share that 75 million thing. So before and after, I'm going to show you how I did it and the tools that I would use for a current version. So I'll show you how I did it before the age of, before the age of ChatGPT. So let me just share my screen. Okay, okay, so yeah, my 75 million dollar case study, here's, here's how I did it. So, this is hyper personalization. So, traditionally, when you're selling, when you write, or you're marketing to someone, you would segment in groups by job title, maybe, or by industry, or by pain point. You'd say, you know, I want to contact marketing directors, or maybe a combination. marketing directors who are struggling to get good results from their content, for example. That's how we tend to group people up when we're kind of marketing them, marketing them. So hyper personalization allows us to actually market and sell to individuals at scale, so not groups of people, the actual individual. So my, my, my The case studies, the 75 million in sales pipeline, and I was using a 50 a month tool, and Microsoft says one of my best testimonials I've ever had, this is the most intelligent version of this type of campaign we've seen. And I want to, I should print that out actually and stick it on the wall. Yeah, you should print it on a shirt. Or frame it in your background. Oh, but I'll just have it painted on my wall behind me. Sounds about right. Yeah. But this is how I did it. And bear in mind, this was before ChatGPT. so actually I was using Crystal Nose, not Humantic, but that's by the by. so what I did was I built lists using Sales Navigator. So I built a list. I pulled off the right people that I wanted to go through. And then I got a human researcher to go out and research, the industry, their com the company. We were just building documents and documents around, these people. So we'd find out what's going on in their company, if they just hired, what tech stat they've got, all of that sort of stuff. That was very heavy human stuff. and we'd have this research about their industry and company. then we used Crystal Nose at first, and then we moved on to Humantic to analyse their personality. So what this does is it sits on LinkedIn, you go onto anybody's profile, you press a button, and it creates, in seconds, a playbook, that is an analysis of their personality, so whatever they click, whatever they post, their age, their location, their background is all taken into account. And you'd think that if somebody wasn't on LinkedIn very much, you know, a lot, most people just click, don't they? you'd think that it wouldn't be very accurate, but You saw the results. It works. And none of these people were very active on LinkedIn. They just liked things from time to time. But it's staggering how much you can tell about somebody from their background, from the language they would use, even in their headline, and then what they click. so yeah, we analyzed their personalities. So the research we had was individual personalities from the list, and industry and company research, quite a lot. So then I took that to my human copywriter and said, read all this and create a LinkedIn outreach message or a series of them. And then I, that, that went over to our human editor and they, they edited it. We got it good to go, and our VA would send out those messages to these individuals. That was the workflow and that was, was very successful. But now. This is how you can do it. so you can use something like Clay or Pasaana. they're two of the biggest list building tools. They're not cheap, I will say this. You need to be really serious about your outreach to use these. They're definitely not cheap. But all you need is, say, if you have a list of LinkedIn profiles or you have a list of companies, it can enrich that information really, really quickly. Clay is better, but more expensive. Pasaana is cheaper. but it doesn't have as many features, but they're both very good. then, so you'd have your list and it has all the details about them, and you've got, you've got all, you know, that research we had the human person do? It's already there, so we can look all the stuff about their industry, their tech stack, that if they're hiring, that is, Clay can do all of that for us in seconds. So we have this list that would have taken us weeks is suddenly there in minutes. Then we use Humantik again, so that same bit of the workflow, to analyze their personalities. And we'd use Perplexity as well to get some extra information in. We now have Deep Research, OpenAI's Deep Research, or we have Google's Deep Research as well. We've got so many new research tools, we could use any of those. So we can get to this stage so much more quickly than we have before. Not really any humans, apart from humans operating AI here. so we had our research to personalize. I'll go back to Larry. and then we would create the content on Claude. So this is what you can do. You use all that research, you upload it, you write an amazing prompt, and Claude will write those outreach sequences for you. and then we still have, cause I still haven't found an AI that can do this. There's plenty of LinkedIn automation tools, but to send individual messages to individual people, it is still a VA, it is still a human at the end. So this is how you could do it in this. Completely different way. This is one of my custom GPTs. His name is Lead Magnet Larry. And what he does, in fact I can just quickly show you if I come out of this for a second. Oh, I love

Audrey Chia: 26:30

the

Heather Murray: 26:30

name Lead

Audrey Chia: 26:31

Magnet

Heather Murray: 26:31

Larry. I'm always giving them Super cute! Yeah, I'm always giving them names and I give them Pixar faces as well. So if I go into my chat GPT for a second. Whoops, that one's not working. There we go. So what he does, he helps you come up with ideas for strong lead magnets. So if you wanted to have a lead magnet alongside your LinkedIn outreach message, which is always a good idea, you just click get started on lead magnet Larry, and he will talk you through whether you want to brainstorm new ideas. help it, he will review an existing one that you've got or something else to do with lead magnets and you just go through, answer his questions and he can create really strong ideas. He will interview you about your goals and everything that you need. You remember saying about AI interviewing you and then he'll come up with the idea. He can't unfortunately design it all up for you at the end. You then maybe have to go into Canva or something like that. but you end up with a really good lead magnet. that you could then even personalize if you wanted to take it a step higher. So say you have an e book, you could then use Claude to upload your e book, upload, upload the personality assessment that we had before over here. My tab, I've always got too many tabs open. Is it this one? Yes, it was over here. So we've got our I think here we've got our humantic personality assessment. We could say our lead magnet, our personality assessment, and say rewrite this ebook for this person. And we end up with a personalized lead magnet too. So you end up here with an amazing list of leads with all the information you need. You've got your personality assessment. You have your industry and company research. You have beautifully written copy. And you have your lead magnet, which could also be hyper personalized if you want. And you send that all out and you get amazing results. and that is, that is my workflow.

Audrey Chia: 28:08

And it's amazing to see how you went from the first workflow, which actually was pretty tedious, effective but tedious, to something that is so much more streamlined with the smart use of AI tools, right? And you're not using the AI tools for the sake of it. You're actually thinking of your own workflows and then figuring out what is the best tool to Duplicate the git, right? Yeah.

Heather Murray: 28:26

And there's a, there's a whole other level from that. Cause this could all be automated too. This is still, so we've got kind of the using an AI tool in a human workflow. Now we've got an AI workflow and then you could have the next stage automated AI workflow. So put this together on make. com or something like that. And it will just run by itself, which is, yeah, which is incredible.

Audrey Chia: 28:43

Wow. And I think there's, there is so much potential for businesses, especially if they're doing B2B or doing sales, right? And if you pair something like this as such a powerful, you know, outbound with content, that converts with your own personal branding, you're then creating a full really AI machine. or AI powered. Machine that runs and runs consistently, which is what I love about

Heather Murray: 29:05

AI. Yeah. Yeah. And there's so much you can do. It could, you could automate the call booking and qualification and it could just be a whole system that runs and be very lucrative. Yeah. I

Audrey Chia: 29:14

mean, since you talked about so, so much of the like. Potential of AI, right? But I would also like to take some time to talk about, you know, potential drawbacks or limitations or considerations. So as a marketer, as a founder, business owner, what are some things that are top of mind for you when it comes to using AI that may not be that much on the Positive say. Yeah. Oh, there's, there's

Heather Murray: 29:34

so many. I think I'm such an advocate of using AI, but also responsible use. And there's so many ethical issues around it, around sustainability. Of course, this, this, a lot of people feel like it just exists in the air and it doesn't have a, any impact on the environment, but it absolutely does to a quite a huge level. So the fact that it uses so much water and so much power to exist. Already more power than a small country, and we are at the beginning of this, so work needs to be done to minimize how much power these programs take, because it's completely unsustainable. That's a big thing that comes up a lot. I think intellectual property as well, and copyright, do we own, I get asked almost every single day, so if I create an image with AI, or I write an article with a really good prompt and I'm really proud of it and it's got my original, my original ideas in, but AI's helped me articulate them. Is that my intellectual property? Can I copyright it? And I've found, so I've spoken to a tech lawyer, I'm not a lawyer, I spoke to a tech lawyer about it and he said, generally you need a human author in order to, to get a copyright. In most countries in the world that's the case. It's a little blurry in the UK though, apparently there's, there is an ability. Very rare, but you can have non human authors. but most of the time you won't be able to copyright that. So nobody owns it, but if you did want to attribute what you've, say you've, created some, an image using AI and you want to attribute all the images that created it, you know, all the Stuff that's been trained. You can't because that information isn't given to us. So even if it was a list of a million different images and you wanted to list them all, you couldn't. So we kind of stuck in this strange space between not, it's not ours, but we can't attribute who it does belong to either, which is a really strange thing.

Audrey Chia: 31:10

Yeah, definitely. I think these are things that, will keep coming up. I don't think anyone has an answer to it yet. And we are still in the process of growing. And of course, as AI evolves at such a rapid pace, then, you know, we perhaps as individual users need to be more conscious of, you know, certain drawbacks that AI might have. But also not be so conscious that we stop learning or stop progressing because AI is moving and we, we have to move. Right. And maybe for, for like small business owners, cause I know you work with a lot of small business owners, have they, what are some perhaps challenges that you've seen for them in terms of adopting AI?

Heather Murray: 31:46

Oh, I love, I love working with other small business owners. I'm a small business owner myself, and I think it's such an exciting time for us because we can. We can double and triple without having to hire. So I think that's kind of, yeah, we can get so much more revenue than ever before and have more time for things. but I think a lot, most people are overwhelmed. So they don't know how to start. They, it was just described to me, earlier today, they, somebody feels like they're in a paint shop and there's every color available. And they, they have no idea how to, which one did they pick? and I totally understand that because even as somebody, and I'm sure you do as well, Audrey, it's, it's very overwhelming. There's so many different tools, there's so many different ways to use it, it's too much. I think the way around that is to start with the, start with the problem, your, so think about your goals, think about what you want to achieve, and then think about what's blocking you from achieving that. So for me, I say, for example, I, I know that webinars work really well as a lead generator for me. But I don't have enough time to create the webinars. So one of my main blockers is time and how long it takes to create one. And then so I look at the, my workflow of creating a webinar about coming up with the ideas, and then writing the notes and writing what's going to happen, and handouts and promotional materials. And then I think, how can AI help me in this journey here? And I think that little bit is how can AI help me is the bit that's the hardest, because you need to have an understanding of its capabilities in order to, to match tools and go, ah, so. Claude would be great there. You need to, everybody needs to take the time to understand the basics. And I think a really good place to start is with the chatbots. So whether it's, chat GPT, Claude, Gemini, Copilot, DeepSeek, whatever, whichever one that you're choosing to use for whatever reason. Understand, learn the differences between them because they're very, very different, they do very different things. and once you learn that, you can start to match up to your, to your blockers and start to think, ah, ChatGPT could help me analyse my data. Claude could help me write that post. and you begin to start to form that. But that is how I generally would advise that people get around overwhelm is starting with their own goals, blockers, and then just a chatbot to begin with.

Audrey Chia: 33:46

The end in mind, right? And then also putting in the work. I think a lot of times like it's, AI is a skill, prompting is a skill, you know, and sometimes it takes, the fact is it takes work, right? And sometimes people don't have the time or are not prioritizing it. And what I've noticed is, in some companies where perhaps, you know, there are a lot of copywriters and creatives who are stretched, for example, in Singapore, where. We work long hours for a company and if the company isn't going to give the team that flexibility as well as, you know, prioritize AI learning as one of the core skill sets, then that individual doesn't have the time or bandwidth to explore. And I think As an individual, it is important for you to still find, you know, time and make resources available for yourself so that when the world evolves, we are able to evolve together because I think as copywriters specifically, we have seen a lot of You know, our copywriting functions being at least replaced by AI to some extent. right. And I think we have to evolve. Now, Heather, what would you say to like other copywriters who are afraid of AI taking over their roles? What kind of advice do you have for them?

Heather Murray: 34:53

I think, I, I'd say don't panic to start off with. If you're a good copywriter, there is still very much a place for you. For example, I've just brought on a copywriter to do my, my sales copy because I don't want to do it with AI. I want that nuance that somebody who is Vicky Handley, she's amazing. and that is something I was like, of course I'm still hiring human copywriters for my, but I would expect her to use AI as part of her research process, for example. I would expect slightly more effective, research capabilities. That's, that's, and that's a really honest thing about how I'd expect. I think you need to equip yourself. If you're working at a big brand and they are giving you, for example, I'm not a massive fan of Copilot. I think it's quite limited compared to the rest. But yet, that's what a lot of people have at work only. You, you need to kind of be skilling yourself up outside of work and having, even if your workplace doesn't permit everything, you still need to be staying ahead yourself. Because they will catch up eventually. There are plenty of tools out there that are really quite affordable, I think. Most things are 10 or 20 a month. So trying one or two things and just keeping yourself up to date would be important. But just looking at which parts of the copywriting process do you not enjoy. Is it, generating new leads for your copywriting business? Is it, following up after meetings? Is it doing sales calls because you're a creative type and you don't want to sell? AOA can help with all of that. Is it analyzing, the efficacy of what you've written? is it planning things? Is it strategic documents? Is it, you know, first drafts? Probably not for most writers. Most writers enjoy the, the, the writing process. Otherwise, they wouldn't be writers. I think just map out the entirety of your whole business. Not just the writing bit, everything. And then think, ah, oh, what would I like to be taken off me? If I could have an assistant for free or for 20, 20 a month, let's face it. What would I give to them? If they could do anything, what could I, what could, what would I give to them? I think that would be, that's a much more freeing way to think about AI for copywriters. And then you go, oh, now I have more time to write, more time to do the thing that I really love, the, the thing that makes my heart sing. so there doesn't have to be any AI anywhere near the actual copywriting bit if you don't want to, but it can sort out your emails for you while you're writing, so you don't need to worry about that. So I think, don't think about it as a replacement, think about it as a tool for the whole process, the whole business. And

Audrey Chia: 37:00

one great way of course is to look at what Heather is doing with AI for non techies. You want to tell us more about that because I know you have packed a lot of value in that platform.

Heather Murray: 37:09

Yeah, so I've, I've, I've started an AI academy. it's called, it's non techies. ai and it's an affordable, accessible academy designed for Individuals who want to skill themselves up, who want to learn how to prompt, who want to understand, and we've got a lovely masterclass from Audrey in there as well, and lots of other of my favorite experts too. So we have an Ultimate AI for Beginners course, it's in 15 parts, and it tells you everything that you need to know as a beginner, from sales, marketing, personal productivity, creating a digital twin, more about how to integrate it into your role, but that the course starts off with. what is generative AI? It's really, really beginner level and really takes you through. So it's all about the making everything as easy and simple as possible. Plus we go live three times a week. So you can come and speak to me on a Monday or my colleagues on a Wednesday and Friday. And we're here to help. So it's, it's 25 per month. So really nice and affordable too. And the idea is that people come in, they go. I get all this for this amount of money. That's, that was the plan. So that's why we've priced it so low and we aim to help as many people as possible. So yeah, go and check it out and see what you think.

Audrey Chia: 38:10

Yes, please do because I know the experts that Heather has. And Heather herself is an incredible AI expert. So if you are still on the fence and thinking, should I get started? This is a sign to sign up for it right now, okay? Do it today! And with that, Heather, thank you so much. Perhaps you could give, you know, our listeners one final word of advice when it comes to adopting AI in their lives or their businesses. Don't, yeah, don't

Heather Murray: 38:35

be scared. It's, it's a really exciting thing and you can't really break it. Sit and play with it. If you're Brand new to all of it. And you're just looking at chapter 18 and think, I don't even know what to type in. Try typing. Hi, how are you? And have a conversation. You'll be really surprised with what happens. and just, yeah, play. That's how I learned everything. I'm sure how you learn, Audrey, as well, is just playing and trying things. And you'll be really surprised in how quickly you'll pick it up. I love that. Where can our listeners find you and who should be reaching out to you, Heather? yeah. So, well, pretty much anybody who's a non technical beginner, please do come and speak to me. I'm on LinkedIn, all the time. It's Heather Murray. or check out the website at nontechies. ai.

Audrey Chia: 39:10

Thank you so much for joining us today, Heather, and thank you for sharing your insights. So to all our listeners, if you found this valuable, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and stay tuned for more AI driven marketing strategies on the AI Marketers Playbook. We'll see you next week. Take care! Thank you, Audrey.