12 | Hank Barker on Simplifying AI Adoption for Businesses

In this episode of AI Marketer’s Playbook, host Audrey Chai sits down with Hank Barker. Hank explains how he transitioned from studying marketing to becoming an AI trainer, where he helps businesses integrate AI into their operations. They discuss overcoming common challenges, such as workflow changes and AI skepticism, and the power of AI in boosting efficiency. Hank emphasizes a gradual approach to AI adoption, starting with simple tasks, and offers tips for maintaining human oversight in AI-driven processes. Plus, a sneak peek into Hank’s upcoming AI training course for businesses.

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Transcript

riverside_hank_& audrey _ aug 30, 2024 001_hank_barker podcast: 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the AI market display book, where we cover actionable frameworks to help you leverage AI in business and life. My name is Audrey Chia, your host. And today I have with me a very lovely gentleman, Hank Barker. Hank is the co founder of Proprietary AI, right? A company focused on empowering businesses in their AI journey. Now, as an AI trainer, Hank's mission is to make this transformative technology simple. And actionable for anyone looking to learn and capitalize on the new possibilities of AI. Welcome to the show, Hank. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm just super excited to, you know, dive into this. I would really love to know, cause I know that AI is still pretty new, you know, to most people. How did you decide to, you know, I think graduate, right. And decide to go all in, into this AI training kind of entrepreneurship journey. Tell us more. so much for having me. Yeah, so it's funny. And my journey started off, you know, back a little over a year ago now with just chat GPT, I jumped on and I said, okay, what is this? Let me have some fun with it. I would just, at first I was just telling like funny stories about my friends. Like that was all it was about. And I then one time I'd used it like to help me with homework for a little bit. And I had like this aha moment. I was like, Oh my goodness, this can be helpful to so many different people. It's been helpful to businesses. I saw, you know, I had that aha moment. And in that moment I said, I need to do this. This needs to be my thing. I want to help people with this. I'm confident in using these tools. I want to make other people confident. And it really, culminated when in one of my classes, one of my professors, I had mentioned like, Oh, I'm, you know, I've been learning a lot about AI and she said, well, you should teach our class about it was a marketing class, actually. And she said, you know, you should have, you know, host a little presentation. I said, let's do it. And she kind of pushed me a little bit more. So it was nice. She got me out of my shell a little bit as well. so once I did this, this, presentation, I was hooked. I said, this is totally what I want to do. I want to help people and I want to make them confident in AI. So that was the line. That's what got me going. And from there, it was talking to my friend, now business partner, Ben. Getting him hooked onto it and the rest is history. Wow. That is amazing to hear. And just out of curiosity, right? What were you actually studying back in school? Yeah. So I was like, I was a mixed, I was first off, you would have asked me my freshman year of high school or freshman year college, I would have said, I'm going to be an engineer or I'm going to be a physical therapist. Those were the two that was my parents were like, you should be one of these two. And I said, okay, that's what I'll go into. And I started getting more into business my, sophomore year. When I switched colleges and then around that time, I got really big into marketing. It was one of them. And then the idea of owning my own business. So then I switched into what's called an interdisciplinary studies program, which is basically, I chose all of my classes that would push me to become, or like allow me to know all the ins and outs of owning a business. So that's where I ended up with, which was a lot of marketing classes, which I really enjoyed. So, yeah, I think back in school, right. My parents probably wanted me to become a doctor or a lawyer. And I was like, no, I'm going to be a creative director in advertising because I saw an ad on TV. I also took a big detour in my life and now I'm in AI. So I think that's the beauty of life in this journey. Right. but I would also love to know for yourself, what have you seen when it comes to people trying to adopt AI? Are most people open to it, or is there still a bit of a resistance? Yeah, that's a good question because it is kind of split. You have the individuals that are just super gung ho and they really want to do it. But there's a lot of people that are just like, they just really are not, they don't really either. They don't care or they don't care enough to really want to implement AI into like their workflows, for example, because they're like, look, I'm coming to work. I want to come to work, whatever is the easiest way to do things and then go home. So we're kind of split where there's people that are really into it. and there's also the people that either really don't care or are slightly against it because they've had a way of doing things. And for you to change the way that somebody's done things for a long time, that can be pretty tough. You know, as somebody that's, even myself, I get stuck in my ways sometimes and I need to go, Wait a second, there's a better way to do things. You know, why not switch up and try to try this new technique, this new workflow that could be benefiting more in the long term. Definitely. And the interesting thing is I always like to say, right, you're never too young or old to learn how to use AI. Even my mom, I'm so proud of her. She's the top user of chatHPT in her company. I'm like, great job, mom, I'm so glad. Yeah. and the funny thing was I just taught her the foundations, right? Then she started figuring out new ways of adopting AI into her workflows and figuring out how to train her team. So I would say that it's a really, really powerful tool if you know how to use it. But I would like to ask, from Hank, your perspective, right? What are some of the main challenges that people face when it comes to adopting AI? Yeah. And I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier. It's the change in workflow. It's going from how you used to do things to changing it to the new way of doing things when you've been like, let's say, let's take somebody that's been working at a company for 30 years. They've been doing this thing that way for 30 years. So for them to have to change up and be like, all right, now we're tackling this new thing. You're going to have to learn a new skill that you have never had to mess with before. That's one of the biggest challenges we that we've noticed, especially in our trainings. And the other one's just like, you don't know what you don't know. You know, they're like, For, for somebody to have to take on this whole new AI thing when they've never heard AI in their entire life. And then boom, AI, and you're like, Oh my goodness. Like, what does that even mean? What does that even, how does this even work? actually we had a training where out of the 18 people, we had thought everybody had at least used the AI. ChatGPT to some extent or just any tool at all out of the 18 people that were there, two of them had an account or had ever used ChatGPT in any way, shape or form. The other 16 had never made an account and had no clue what was happening. So it was like, it was kind of a, we had to stop, stop the, professional development. Walk everybody through making an account and just kind of get them over that initial hump of like, okay getting onto the platform So it was it was a kind of a shock to us because we see ai every single day So we just assume everybody else sees ai every single day, you know yeah, and the funny thing is I think because Both of us are active creators on LinkedIn, right? And if you're in a LinkedIn bubble or a Twitter bubble, right? You probably think that the whole world is already on board this AI train. When in fact, there are still a lot of people who are new to it, trying to figure it out or just ignoring it completely. And I have seen, you know, quite a number of different folks reacting to AI in different ways. And, and how do you? Advise someone to, to get started. Cause now, you know, there are challenges, right? So what are the kind of common ways in which people can try to adopt AI in their daily lives? Yeah. So one of the biggest things I recommend, and this is for a lot of different skills, so it's pretty applicable is just starting very small. You want the, the ease of integration to just like get a little bit better over time. So let's say you wanted to like pick one simple, simple use case, something that's not going to change how you're doing things too much, but also you're starting to move in that general direction. You could, let's say we're going to do like for copy, you wanted to start using AI for copy. You would start by maybe just one day, you're just jumping on the tool and you're just starting to just do a little bit more, a little bit more and build that confidence up over time because if you just try to jump right into learning, like trying to jump right into using it for copy, for example, you're going to get burnt out or you're going to get frustrated and then you're going to be like, I don't want to use AI ever because it didn't do exactly what I wanted right away, you know, Definitely. like what you said about copywriting, right? I, I too have found that, usually the best people to prompt for a copy are people who understand their own internal workflows. So it actually helps when you actually have a bit of a foundation to, you know, the skills that you're trying to learn. And then you integrate AI and then you do it step by step, like what you see. And that's when you see like, you know, a much greater ROI compared to if you were to just rely on AI. And I want to also talk about, you know, the over reliance or dependence on AI. Do you feel like it's a thing for people to just, you know, ask AI to do everything for them? Yes. It's, it's something that I think we're going to see a lot more of as AI continues to get integrated more into workflows. Cause right now. People are a little skeptical, but you have the people that are using AI a lot. It can become an over reliance. Like you see people on LinkedIn that say in their AI experts or they're experts in copywriting when they're just having chat CPT do most of the work or they're having a different tool. So we are seeing that over reliance and we're, I think we're going to see. It grow much more as the popularity grows with AI. So, and it's one of those things that you just have to kind of be watchful. You have to have like a watchful eye. So understanding the basics and well, I'll take this one step back, actually. In terms of yourself, if you were trying to avoid an over reliance, it's knowing, like you said, the foundations of whatever skill you're trying to have AI help you with. So for copy, for example, I spent many, many, many months messing with copy with LinkedIn before I ever say, I'm going to have AI help me with this, because I wanted to make sure that I knew what good copy looked like before I had AI try to do it. Cause. You're going to look at what AI says and be like, that's pretty good. You know, cause you're not really too sure of what is good. So if you don't have something to compare it to, you're just, you, you're going to set yourself up for potentially failure. I love what you said about being able to identify what a good output is, whether it's for copywriting or anything else. Right. So I think what I've also noticed is if people don't know what a good headline is, and they ask chat GPT to come up with. You know, 10 different headlines, they won't be able to identify which one of the 10 could potentially be more effective than the rest, right? And that comes with your experience, you know, you putting in the work, putting in the reps and then knowing that, Hey, I think this is going to resonate with my audience. So that balance of human and AI is definitely important. So what do you, what do you tell your, your, you know, your clients about that balance, right? How do you help them to balance this? You know, Both things at the same time. Yeah. I it's one of the conversations that's like the first thing you, when you're approaching a client, you're talking, saying, Hey, this is meant to enhance you, not replace you. And that's, it's something that like, you know, when, when we're doing any professional development, we touch on that. Multiple different times, because there's, there's a lot of people out there that are scared of that, that, that replacement factor. Oh, it's going to take my job. It's going to take my job. So we offer that reassurance continuously. And in terms of the workflows themselves, it's, it's a, you can allow AI to do the first draft for you and then, but you always need that, that, that human outlook, the human overlook, they always need to be ensured that humans double checking everything that the AI is outputting, because. AI can mess up and will mess up. So you need to make sure that the person behind the AI is actually double checking everything that's coming through, coming, you know, coming out that way. Double click on that. Right. Let's talk about, you know, perhaps hallucination or when output isn't as great. So what do you tell your clients when it comes to AI output? How do they, what are the things they should be watching out for, especially when it's not always accurate? Yeah, so it's like same thing I said, it's, it's making sure that you're double checking every single thing that comes out, especially if you're, for example, you're creating some sort of document that's going to be sent to another company, making sure that you are looking through every single thing that's being said, making sure that, the outputs that you're getting are in, In comparison to how the outputs that you would have originally created. So if I were to be creating this document, does it look similar to what I would create? If there's some discrepancies there that could, you know, either lead to some problems or just not be how you would actually say things, that's where something you're looking forward to, you know, make sure you need to go back through the AI tool and change those certain things. Definitely. So for me, at least my process is like, I call it like the, the burger method, right? So human AI human, and I like to start off with human strategy. So what is my strategy? What is my approach to solving this problem? Then I figure out how can I integrate AI into my processes, whether it's Like the prompts itself or tools. And then I come in with like what you said, the third part where the human actually reviews the work to make sure that it's actually of great quality. So that when you deliver it, right, you're not just delivering it blindly, but it actually still works. and for me, you would not want to deliver it blindly. I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah. And I think what would be really, really helpful is if you could show us perhaps, you know, some prompts or some systems that you have. taught your clients and things that would perhaps help our audience also learn how they can leverage AI in their day to day. Oh, you want me to go over my, the, the marketing resource. Yeah. So I put together this resource and I'll just, I can just share my screen now. So basically what I did was. Is I put together this marketing resource, for beginner marketers and for just in general, people just looking to get into AI, but it's more so focused on the marketing side of things. So what I did is I put together, what, like introducing, like, let's just, let's just jump into it actually. Let's just jump into it. Awesome. So what Hank is showing here right now, if for those of you who can't see the screen, he has a beautiful Notion file with loads of golden nuggets in it. And it's a full AI marketing resource, which we will dive into right now. Yeah. So what I wanted to do is I wanted to ensure that if you were somebody looking to jump into AI and you're in the marketing field, that you had like all the steps needed to get started. So with that in mind, I started off with just like an introduction to what AI is. You know, why should you care as a marketer and as a marketer, we're seeing that there are huge perks that come along with using AI and marketing. For example, the personalization just becoming overall more efficient. being able to analyze data much quicker, you know, I think this is something that, I myself have done a lot, especially with LinkedIn, just analyzing all my LinkedIn data to ensure like, okay, what days do I do, should I be posting on for the most reach and things like that? It's Mondays and Tuesdays, by the way, for myself, but exactly. So, and then also like, what's the state of AI and marketing right now? We're seeing that around 99 percent of marketers are using AI in some capacity. It could be that they are using it unknowingly, or you have run, or you also have that group of about 87 that are experimenting with AI tools currently. And that could be in a small capacity and large capacity. It really depends. but we are seeing that a lot of marketers are super optimistic and wanting to use AI because it's so beneficial. And I have just some quick tips. especially just right off the bat for people looking to get into AI. And they're just kind of having those, little, boundaries to hop over. It's meant to be a tool. It's not meant to be a replacement. You want to start small, but you also want to think big, you know, pick the tools or pick the use cases that are going to benefit you now, but are not going to be too hard to implement. And then from there think, okay, where could this take me? Where could I be, you know, a couple of months from now where I could end up. another big thing that's going to be emphasized throughout this is main keep learning because with AI moving so fast and with marketers having to stay agile, it's important to just stay on top of all of the, all of the new news and all of the new use cases out there in marketing. So I put together a list of just a bunch of different tools that I think could benefit marketers and just, just marketing professionals in general. but I also wanted to like touch on this right off the bat when you're starting with AI. You want to start with one tool and become confident before adopting any more tools. And I say that because you want to save yourself from that stress And any type of burnout that you could have from starting because let's say chat gpt, for example, you could Pick chat gpt And use ChatGPT for months before you're actually truly confident in all of the bits and bobs that come with ChatGPT. So, if I were to start with ChatGPT and then try to pick up another tool that's equally as tough to, or equally as, much material with it. that can lead to some stress down the line. So here's my, like, here's my, here's how I would do things. I would start by identifying a simple task that I could help with, like, let's say, creating a post, doing some copy. For example, you would then find one tool that could help with that. So chat CPT is just always a great option. Claude's another great option. And then from there, you're going to start using that tool for using the tool for that task till you're comfortable. Now comfortable, comfortable for some people could be. A couple days of trying it out could be a couple hours or it could be a month or two You know my for like my family, for example, my mom uses chat gbt and She's just now starting to get comfortable after using it for a couple months So it can take time and it's important to note that it's really it's for you. You know, this is for you This is not you're not in a time crunch. It's however long it takes for you to get comfortable That's what you should focus on I think like what you said, right, it's like everybody has a different kind of Window that they need yes to learn and experience things and I don't think that You should feel stressed or pressurized to be able to pick it up in one or two days because honestly Ai is a new skill set and like any skills that it takes people time to learn, right? Yeah, and there's a lot to learn about you know using ai in general I actually had posted about this today, like knowing the, like how to analyze outputs and making sure the outputs are accurate, knowing just in general, like how to prompt, like that in itself is its own skill that you would have to pick up and learn, which can take time. And there should be no pressure there. It should be at your own pace, you feeling comfortable getting better and better. But, so we can just, I'll just kind of touch on some of the main AI tools out there that. Obviously are super beneficial. Notion being one of them, the one we're on right now, super beneficial, chat GPT as well. I am an avid chat GPT er and, I'm just starting to pick up Claude as well, that those are been my two main tools. I use chat GPT for brainstorming, like. Every single day. I've never had a brainstorming session where I've not had chat GPT or Claude be a part of my workflow. I actually started out best friends. No, exactly. They're my best friends. I got, I usually have chat GPT and Claude up both at the exact same time. And I'll put the same prompt into both of them and just be like, all right, if one does well, the other one's going to, if the other one does well and the other one doesn't, that's totally fine. You know, I have, I have a backup. Yeah. Yeah. So from here, let's just move into, what I did next is I combined the, tools that I did. So I had gotten 28 different tools that I think are beneficial for marketers and I combined them with different use cases. So for example, if you were wanting to create blog posts or articles. I, I added in the applicable tools that would benefit this, use case. So for that, that example, you have a Jasper AI, you have a notion, you have chat, CPT, Claude, and even Gemini. So there's multiple tools out there for different use cases. And that's something I wanted to emphasize because you don't, we don't all need to be using chat, CPT. We don't all need to be using, like a notion. There's different options out there. And I always like to include some I think the interesting thing that I also found, is that even for a copyright, Claude tends to do better for long form, for example. But if you want to run ads, you might want to try a meta AI. So different LLMs are trained differently, which makes them really special. Specific for a specific use case or purpose, which is why I think it's the joy of experimentation. Like what you say, you have two frames, right? Claude and Chad, you can see, which I do as well. And then you can sort of figure out who does better at what. And then you can like, zone in there. And that's, and what I found through my personal, you know, experimenting back and forth is, yeah, if I'm doing anything copy related. Claude has been my go-to anything like human sounding. Claude has been my go-to, but chat GPT has a more versatile versatility to it. So if I'm doing anything that like okay, I want to create a GPT or I want to, like brainstorm for example, I'm jumping in a chat GPT'cause I found that it has better ideas for the most part. So it's cool having that back and forth and you know, kind of stress testing'em against each other. It's fun. So I think from here what we can do is I have a bunch of different use cases and I think this is something. if you were to post about this, this can be something we can give out. Cause I'd love, love for others to gain value from this. I think one, yeah, I wanted to, I want to make sure everyone has this. I also put together part of this is a integration timeline. So if you're somebody that's. New it's AI, or you're just starting to use AI and marketing or just AI in general. I put together this 30 day challenge. Now it's more of like a guideline. It's getting you to start using AI and it's getting you just more comfortable with the tools. So how this, how this works is you have like a week one where it's like a foundation and exploration. And in that week, you're kind of identifying, okay, what, what use cases would be beneficial for me, what tools are out there and choosing your first tool. And after you have that first tool, the goal would be to start, you know, using, using the tool more, get more comfortable with it. And then we're going to be moving into like a week two. Now this is, something that I do and I just mentioned it is AI assisted brainstorming. Now, this is something that. Nearly everybody could be using AI for I've never had a time where I've used the chat GPT and I've never had it where I never got a good idea from it. I'm either getting a good idea. Or I'm, my brain's racked enough now with the ideas that I just got that I'm coming up with a solution that I need. So a super simple use case that somebody can start adopting quickly and get comfortable using like a chat GPT or a cloud, for example, is the, the brainstorming. And then from there, like some just short and simple tasks like, okay. Creating a short piece of mark marketing copy or problem solving. Like if you have a marketing challenge that you're facing, you could use AI to, you know, brainstorm potential solutions. I think one amazing thing that you say also was like being able to, you know, use it for strategy and ideation. Right. one, one GPT that I used. Was the Alex from my ZGPT and the fun part is I have it on my phone So i'm just walking right because when I when I think I need to walk So i'm having my early morning walks with Alex on my phone and i'm like, what do you think of this idea? And then he's like, this is how I can improve it and i'm like good idea And then we have that back and forth which makes it also very entertaining Because yeah, it's sort of it's like a someone you can bounce ideas off Especially if you're a solo preneur or you're building a business and you just need kind of a sounding board, then AI can be a really handy tool for that. Yeah. And I think it's funny enough. You were talking about like early morning walks. I go for an early morning walk every single day. And I do like, that's my brainstorming session. Like I'm going for a mile walk and I'm just, I might look like I'm crazy, but I'm sitting there talking back and forth to myself. I'm like, okay, what if I do this? What am I going to do that? You know, I live on a dirt road. I'm out in the country. So. Not many people are giving me weird looks, but I've had the occasional like, what's he doing over there? I'm just sitting there just, okay, if I'm going to use chat to speak for this, you know, it's just, it was, that's my brainstorming time, you know? Oh, I love that. I can totally relate to you, Hank. That is like me every other morning. And I think what people don't understand is there is a lot of power. In being able to leverage a tool that isn't just your assistant, but a tool that can potentially be your sparring partner. Because what happens is if you just ask it for ideas, right? Sure, I can give you ideas, but you can maximize it when you are asking it questions or when you're asking it to critique your idea. And that's when you really see the full potential of how AI thinks compared to yourself. And then you take the pieces that work for you and then you construct it and turn it into your own idea as well. Yes. Yes. Like that, that human AI collaboration right there. Especially like you're talking, like you're talking to Alex from OGGPT. He's a pretty smart guy. So getting to hear what he has to say is always a good idea. You should, you should try it one day. I think, I think you'll like it. Yeah, I definitely would. I actually, funny enough, what I do is like, if I'm going to go get a workout and I go and I put on his book, I do like a hundred million dollar leads or a hundred million dollar offers. I just have it sitting there. So he's, he's given me all these certain ideas while I'm like doing pushups or something. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, I should remember that. You know. Putting in the reps both ways, like mentally and physically. I love that. Exactly. And back to this notion, Paul, right? Is there anything else that could be interesting for our listeners? Yeah, I think we could touch on funny. We could touch on your story as a, as a marketer and how you've grown and how you like decided on the tools that you use now, we can kind of touch on that and talk about, okay, what the best practices for where that you found And then we can kind of like go back and forth of what we've learned together or learned on our journeys together. Yeah, definitely. So I think for myself, I was just put in a place where I didn't really have much of a choice because I just launched my consultancy Close With Copy and it launched the same time that Chat at GPT was released. So I was like, Oh my goodness. I have to. I have to figure this out, right? Because while most people had stable 9 to 5 jobs, I was finally ready to leave my 9 to 5, and then came this super powerful tool. And at that point in time, you could already see its potential. So I remember asking it to write a Nike ad for me, and I was like, Wow, for a V1, that is huge! Super good. And I was extremely impressed, but at the same time, kind of a little bit scared to be honest. So of course as a marketer or copywriter, right, that the first emotion that I felt was fear. but I also knew that I had kind of two options, either to fight the current or to Write the type, right? And so I started learning how to adopt it. Of course, at that point in time, there were not many resources. So a lot of the experimentation process was just trial and error, you know, just it's going to put in this prompt and see what happens. I'm just going to break down my workflow into, you know, five steps and see what happens. and I'm just going to like test different things out to see what happens. But it was through that. Back and forth and experimentation that I think I sort of learned the skill set a lot faster than if I were to just copy somebody else's prompt, because I see prompting as copywriting. It is a skill set. If you learn how to master the frameworks for prompting, and then you think about how you integrate it into your workflows, then you will find much better results. Like, I would love to know also for Hank, for yourself, right, when you first started prompting, how was it like for you? How do you pick up the skillset? Yeah, so, I was like, it came pretty natural to me, because in my mind it was, I was like, I was, yeah, it was super easy, no, but right off the bat, I was like, this is, I'm just like talking to another person, like, I had that mindset right off the bat, which, I was happy to, like, I was blessed to have had that mindset right off the bat because I came at it, I was like, okay, I'm just talking to somebody that's really smart, so I'm just going to, you know, give them what they need. And if it doesn't give me back what I want, I'm going to keep talking to him and say, no, I need it this way, or, oh, I needed, I needed you to change it to do that. So it was something that as, as time went on, I got better at, but off the bat, it was, I had like right off the bat, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna watch a couple of videos on it, you know, get, get more comfortable with it. And then it was. Jump into the tool and mess with it. It was experiment, experiment, experiment. Just like you had said, it was as much time as I could give myself to just like, be curious and mess with the tool was what I got from it. And I think that's a big point that I always like to emphasize is being curious. Because if you come at this, like I say, an AI tool with curiosity, you're much, you have a much better chance of learning and being more genuinely like interested in it. If you come at it from a, I need to do this. Oh, I have to do this thing. You're not going to want to learn. You're not going to open yourself up to that opportunity to learn. Definitely. And I think one thing that I probably add, right, is after a while, you sort of, Understand AI like it's a it's like your best friend. So you understand its kinks its preferences what it likes What it doesn't like what it responds to what it doesn't and it's really interesting because I don't even know How best to articulate it but after a while It came so naturally to me to prompt in different ways So I don't follow like a fixed sequence of prompting. It's a A conversation. And I think about solving problems in different ways. So on day one, I might be solving a problem in this certain framework, but the next day I could be thinking, what if I approach this problem differently? And then I prompt AI in a different framework and it still gives me great results, but I'm using it in a really creative way instead of following a fixed set of guidelines. Yeah. And what that does is like, I think I'll use it if you can then tackle problems in different ways and you might get a solution that you would, it didn't give you the first time and you're like, Oh my goodness, this one's way better than the other one. And I, that's a big part of like when I've done brainstorming in the past, like I thought I knew of a good idea and I prompted it and it gave me something better, you know, a little bit better. And then I come back at it a different day and a different, like a different approach. And boom, there's the thing I was looking for. That was like the holy grail of answers that it could have given me. And I'm always just so happy. I'm so excited. I'm like, yes, yes. Chat, I know that feeling when I was like, Oh, this is really good. Yeah. And I would love to know, do you have any hot tips for us? Like your secret tips when it comes to prompting with AI? Yeah. I mean, my biggest tip, especially, and this isn't a hot tip. This is something that goes back. It's a lot of people know is to just be simple with it and act like it's another human, like act like it's a human that. Knows a lot of stuff, but doesn't know everything because a lot of people will be like, they'll try, they'll try AI out for the first time or try chat, CBT. And they're like, it didn't give me exactly what I was thinking in my own brain. It's like, it doesn't know what you're thinking in your own brain. You have to spell everything out for it, for it to give you what you're looking for. Like sometimes you'll put in something for pretty vague and it'll get what you're looking for. For the most part, it's about being specific with it. It's about spelling everything out going boop, boop, boop. Here's, here's what I'm looking for. That's, you know, do the thing. And that's where I've noticed a lot of people struggle with. And that's where I've thrived because I've just always been exactly specific. If I need to, I'll input an extra three or four sentences. Cause I'm like, now I know it's going to get exactly what I'm looking for. What has helped me is treating AI like my supercharged intern. And I would ask myself, how would I train my intern to solve this problem with me? And then I would ask, like, if I had to. Put this, like these instructions into a, like a document, like SOP, right? What would that look like? So when you're like taking a step back from the way you think and being reflective and critical about the way you think, then now you break down your process into so many different parts. Yes. Then you can start prompting, picking the right tools and then figuring out where the human comes in and where the AI comes in. So that has really helped me to unlock a lot of the, you know, potential. I'm here. I'm the same exact way I've always like, if I'm ever training somebody or talking to somebody, I always say, this is like an intern. Like if, if you were to give those instructions to that intern, could they do it if they couldn't likely AI is not going to be able to do it either. So you need to just, it needs to be boom, boom, boom, everything set out for the person for the AI bot, just like it would be same thing. If you were giving it to a human, it's the same, same sort of structure, I would say. So, and I would love to take a mini detour, right? And talk about your journey as an entrepreneur, because AI is such an amazing, huge world, but so is the journey of entrepreneurship. Would you like to tell us more about how it has been for you so far, you know, and also what are your plans and next steps? Yeah. So it's been genuinely so fun and so interesting because I've gotten to do, you know, cool things like this, like talking with you and talking with a lot of other different, interesting people that I never would have if I didn't go down this path. And that has been the most rewarding thing for me. I love talking to new people and getting to getting new insights. So that has been one of the biggest things that I've enjoyed so far. I will say entrepreneurship is not. Easy. There are a lot of days where I've been just like, Oh, I know I could go get a traditional nine to five and be making consistent money and that would be cool. But then there's also like, well, no, if I keep working at this, like I'm going, like I will, there's that big opportunity to be, to reach what I want to be able to do, and that is travel the world and enjoy, you know, everything there is out there. Yeah. In terms of what we're doing next, we actually have a course coming out really soon. I'm super excited about it. it's been approved by like, like, the it director at Mattel has went through it and said, if I were to be taking, if I were to be giving my, my employees a course, like if I had to go back in time, that would be the course I'd be giving them. So that was a super nice compliment. Super cool to hear. It's basically an AI employee confidence training course. So it's, meant to give it to your employees and now they're going to know all the basics and become just so much more confident in using AI tools in the workplace. So we're super excited about it. We're we're just about to get to the recording part of things. So we're super that's, that's the next big thing we're working on right now. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited for you, Hank. I know this is just the beginning of a long and huge journey ahead, which is really exciting. And I think one thing that will not change is people's need to learn and to upscale themselves, right? So AI can change. The marketing world can change. Copywriting will also change. The ability to train someone is something that is going to remain constant. So I think that's a good space that you're in. Awesome. And I think so, so for the, to wrap up, right. I would love to know, you know, where can our listeners find you and who should be reaching out to you for your services? Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn, just Hank Barker. we actually just started up a YouTube channel like literally last week. And what we're doing is something similar, like a podcast type of thing. And then we break down some shorts. So, Hank and Ben, if you want to check out our, YouTube. And for people that want to reach out to us, we are looking to, we train employees. So if you're anybody that's looking to, teach your employees how to use AI. That's where we come to approach us. We make things super simple and actionable and just enjoyable for everyone involved. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. It has been a real pleasure having you on the show and thank you listeners for tuning in. So don't forget to hit the subscribe button and follow the AI Marketers Playbook for more exciting episodes on leveraging AI. See you next time.